Bug 153673

Summary:	"Chapter" label needs improvement in cross-references dialog
Product:	LibreOffice	Reporter:	sdc.blanco
Component:	Writer	Assignee:	Not Assigned <libreoffice-bugs>
Status:	NEW ---
Severity:	normal	CC:	dgp-mail, heiko.tietze, mikekaganski, rb.henschel
Priority:	medium	Keywords:	needsDevAdvice
Version:	7.2.7.2 release
Hardware:	All
OS:	All
See Also:	https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=142555 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147774
Whiteboard:
Crash report or crash signature:		Regression By:
Bug Depends on:	153751
Bug Blocks:	141858
Attachments:	Screenshot MSO

Description sdc.blanco 2023-02-16 16:54:32 UTC

Ctrl-F2 (or Insert - Field - More Fields) - Cross-references tab

In "Refer using" window, note the option "Chapter.

1. "Chapter" is clearly a poor label because this option can be used with numbered lists (which are not "chapters"), as well as numbered headings (which are not always chapters).

2. Before proposing to find another label, let me ask if the "Chapter" option is needed in this dialog.

Relevant background:

Bug 147774 comment 7 concludes that "Chapter" and "Number" are needed, but I could not find any discussion of  "Chapter" vs. "Number (no context)" (in bug 147774, or bug 121465 and bug 149653, where this dialog and these options are discussed).

The current behavior (7.6.0.0) is that Chapter provides only the number of the numbered item, while "Number (no context)" also includes the "Before" and "After" separators.

Naively, I would think (from the label) that "Number (no context)" would not include the separators.

I understand that there are concerns about these separators in other tickets (e.g., bug 121465, bug 144563, bug 147774, bug 149653).  

Maybe there is an idea/plan to make "Number (no context)" behave like "Chapter" does at present.  If that is the plan, then then I would propose to drop "Chapter", and there is no need to find another label.

Alternatively the following renaming of the currently existing interface:

Chapter -> "Number (no context)"
"Number (no context)" -> "Number (with separators)"

would give the user a better indication of what actually happens with these options, and would not require any changes in functionality. 

Either change would satisfy the concern of the OP to remove "chapter" from this dialog.

3.  If there is a plan to keep "Chapter" functionality (as distinct from the others), then I would propose finding another name, for the reasons listed in the first point here.  (should not be "heading" because can also be used list paragraphs)

Comment 1 sdc.blanco 2023-02-16 17:00:09 UTC

correction:  bug 149653 in OP should have been bug 149635

Comment 2 Heiko Tietze 2023-02-20 10:15:22 UTC

Created attachment 185484 [details]
Screenshot MSO

(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #0)
> 2. Before proposing to find another label, let me ask if the "Chapter"
> option is needed in this dialog.

Heading > Chapter omits the separator like "1.1" vs "1.1:". But I'd naively like you expect that all three Number options return different results.

MSO does not list Chapter for any type.

Comment 3 Heiko Tietze 2023-02-20 10:16:32 UTC

Regina, Mike: any insights?

Comment 4 Heiko Tietze 2023-05-10 11:39:15 UTC

The dialog is read in sw/source/ui/fldui/fldref.cxx with a quite complex code. Apparently neither me nor anyone else from UX can answer your question.

Comment 5 sdc.blanco 2023-05-26 09:59:20 UTC

Beyond the functionality/behavior of "Chapter" is its "label" (which is misleading in relation to the current behavior).

Propose:  Chapter -> Paragraph number

because this option displays the number of the heading (if numbering is chosen in Tools - Heading Numbering) or the number of the list paragraph.

This proposal is meant as a temporary improvement (to remove the word "Chapter" and give a better indication of what happens with this option). Maybe later this option will still be dropped, because its functionality duplicates one of the "Number (no/full context)" options.  But until then...

Comment 6 Mike Kaganski 2023-05-26 10:01:46 UTC

(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #5)
> Propose:  Chapter -> Paragraph number

"Paragraph number" is something entirely new, and having a huge confusion potential. Reading such a phrase, I'd imagine a sequential number of all paragraphs in a document...

Simply "Numbering"?

Comment 7 sdc.blanco 2023-05-26 10:11:16 UTC

(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #6)
> Reading such a phrase, I'd imagine a sequential number of all...
You do not have to imagine. In the context of this dialog, you must select one relevant paragraph in the "Selection" box.

I notice the "Chapter" also appears as an option for Type "Bookmarks".  Is it ever possible to use this "refer using" option for this type?

Comment 8 Dieter 2024-05-24 10:40:56 UTC

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #4)
> The dialog is read in sw/source/ui/fldui/fldref.cxx with a quite complex
> code. Apparently neither me nor anyone else from UX can answer your question.

Heiko, so what is the concrete question to developers? 

Since version 7.6 chapter numbering has beeen removed at least in tools menu (see bug 153549). So this might be a good argument to rename "chapter" in cross-reference dialog also.

Comment 9 Heiko Tietze 2024-05-27 12:49:35 UTC

Help (still) says: "Chapter: Inserts the heading number or list number of the reference target."
https://help.libreoffice.org/24.8/en-US/text/swriter/01/04090002.html

In case of Headings and Numbered Paragraph we have "Number" as a refer option. Neither "Heading Numbering" nor just "Numbering" seems to work. Number takes list attributes into the field, at least before/after, Chapter is the pure number. How about "Plain Number" or resp. "Full Numbering"?

The string is defined in sw/inc/strings.hrc as #define FMT_REF_CHAPTER NC_("FMT_REF_CHAPTER", "Chapter") (and used per FMT_REF_ARY).