Bug 125876 - More centralized endnote/footnote settings
Summary: More centralized endnote/footnote settings
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
6.4.0.0.alpha1+
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Kira Tubo
URL:
Whiteboard: target:24.2.0 target:24.8.0
Keywords: difficultyMedium, easyHack, skillDesign
Depends on:
Blocks: Footnote-Endnote-Properties
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2019-06-12 10:03 UTC by Telesto
Modified: 2024-01-15 01:33 UTC (History)
7 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
Screenshots dialogs (34.85 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2019-06-12 10:06 UTC, Telesto
Details

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Description Telesto 2019-06-12 10:03:57 UTC
Description:
There are multiple dialog related to endnotes/footnotes, scattered all around the place. 

1. Format → Page → Footnote tab
2. Insert → Footnote and Endnote -> Footnote or Endnote 
3. Right click context menu when clicking on footnote/endnote → Footnotes and endnotes

* I would integrate "Footnote or Endnote" dialog into Footnote/Endnote settings or something like that. The dialog doesn't add to much, IMHO. 
* Make the Footnote/Endnote settings dialog more accessible. Add it to Insert → Footnote and Endnote menu for example
* Add the Format → Page → Footnote tab to the Footnote/Endnote settings dialog

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Format → Page → Footnote tab
2. Insert → Footnote and Endnote -> Footnote or Endnote 
3. Right click context menu when clicking on footnote/endnote → Footnotes and endnotes

Actual Results:
Multiple dialogs

Expected Results:
More centralized settings


Reproducible: Always


User Profile Reset: No



Additional Info:
Version: 6.4.0.0.alpha0+ (x86)
Build ID: ac14e5613597e7361ce6995dacb1bb5bd55b6b00
CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 6.3; UI render: default; VCL: win; 
TinderBox: Win-x86@42, Branch:master, Time: 2019-06-06_05:09:49
Locale: nl-NL (nl_NL); UI-Language: en-US
Calc: threaded
Comment 1 Telesto 2019-06-12 10:06:14 UTC
@Heiko
Any thoughts :-)
Comment 2 Telesto 2019-06-12 10:06:35 UTC
Created attachment 152129 [details]
Screenshots dialogs
Comment 3 Mike Kaganski 2019-06-12 10:31:39 UTC
(In reply to Telesto from comment #0)
> 3. Right click context menu when clicking on footnote/endnote → Footnotes

Tools->Footnotes and Endnotes
Comment 4 Telesto 2019-06-12 12:36:02 UTC
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #3)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #0)
> > 3. Right click context menu when clicking on footnote/endnote → Footnotes
> 
> Tools->Footnotes and Endnotes

Thanks for the addition.. Didn't know
Comment 5 Roman Kuznetsov 2019-06-12 15:29:25 UTC
there are Footnote/Endnote options in Insert->Section dialog also

and I fully against that at all.

We'll can't make only ONE dialog because it will touch many different subsystem (page layout, section options, footnote/endnote options, etc.)

-1 from me
Comment 6 Telesto 2019-06-12 15:50:32 UTC
(In reply to Roman Kuznetsov from comment #5)
> there are Footnote/Endnote options in Insert->Section dialog also
> 
> and I fully against that at all.

Lets rephrase; is it maybe possible toe optimize it a little in some way to make things a little more accessible. Heaving all these settings scattered/ hidden all over the place without being accessible from another is not all to self-explaining

For example: why can't the Footnote/Endnote settings also include the page setting tab? 

It's is only an push/incentive to take a look at it.. :-)
Comment 7 Dieter 2019-06-12 18:26:57 UTC
(In reply to Roman Kuznetsov from comment #5)
> We'll can't make only ONE dialog because it will touch many different
> subsystem (page layout, section options, footnote/endnote options, etc.)

That's an ansewer from a technical perspective, but you also consider the users view. Here I agree that a normal user isn't aware of the different settings and possibilities with footnotes and endnotes. That's also my own experience.

If it is difficult to make only one dialog, I'd like to make a proposal for little changes, that might enhance the situation for the user

1. Add entry "Settings" or "Footnotes/Endnotes Settings" to Insert => Footnote and Endnote. This enry should open the Footnote/Endnote Setting dialog. Reasoning: A lot of users don't know how they change for example footnote styles or character style of a footnote.

2. Rename entry in Tools from "Footnotes and Endnotes" to "Footnotes/Endnotes settings". Reasoning: This is in line with the name of the dialog and it makes clear, that it is different from "Footnote and Endnote" in the Insert menu.

3. Context menu of footnote anchor:
a) Rename "Footnote or Endnote" to "Edit Footnote/Endnote". Reasoning: This is in line with the name of the dialog.
b) Add "Footnotes/Endnotes Settings" to the context menu. Reasoning: see 1.

4. Context menu of footnote area: Rename "Footnotes and Endnotes" to "Footnotes/Endnotes Settings". Resoning: see 1.

I think this changes would make it mor consistent and userfriendly.
Comment 8 Heiko Tietze 2019-06-13 12:19:06 UTC
(In reply to Telesto from comment #1)
> Any thoughts :-)

There is also the Navigator. I've added it to my todo list, Dieter had some good ideas.
Comment 9 Telesto 2019-06-13 14:25:44 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #1)
> > Any thoughts :-)
> 
> There is also the Navigator. I've added it to my todo list, Dieter had some
> good ideas.

OK, nice.. 

If there will be a  "Settings" or "Footnotes/Endnotes Settings" entry, please consider the include menu item linking to the page -> footnote tab.. [similar to the header/footer menu -> Format header item]. I had a hard time finding that specific dialog.
Comment 10 Heiko Tietze 2023-06-06 08:52:07 UTC
#1 General footnote settings (Tools > F&E) - numbering scheme, text style etc.
#2 Page settings for footnotes (Format > Page: F) - page flow, separators...
#3 Individual footnote number (Insert > F&E) - one item with exception to the numbering scheme
#4 Insert > F&E - insert the auto number and enter the text

(In reply to Dieter from comment #7)
> 1. Add entry "Settings" or "Footnotes/Endnotes Settings" to Insert =>
> Footnote and Endnote...
+1

> 2. Rename entry in Tools from "Footnotes and Endnotes" to
> "Footnotes/Endnotes settings"
+1

> 3. Context menu of footnote anchor:
> a) Rename "Footnote or Endnote" to "Edit Footnote/Endnote". Reasoning: This
> is in line with the name of the dialog.
> b) Add "Footnotes/Endnotes Settings" to the context menu. Reasoning: see 1.
What do you expect contextually at "He¹ heard quite steps"? I don't think we want to change this number to something special (the function #3 is weird anyway). The actual contextual interaction is "Go To" as realized per single click (which also hinders a context menu) and in the Navigator.

> 4. Context menu of footnote area: Rename "Footnotes and Endnotes" to
> "Footnotes/Endnotes Settings". Resoning: see 1.
+1
Comment 11 sdc.blanco 2023-06-06 10:24:06 UTC
(In reply to Dieter from comment #7)
> 2. Rename entry in Tools from "Footnotes and Endnotes" to
> "Footnotes/Endnotes settings". 
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/152651

(also updates the relevant tips of the day)
Comment 12 sdc.blanco 2023-06-06 10:38:21 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #10)
> (In reply to Dieter from comment #7)
> > 1. Add entry "Settings" or "Footnotes/Endnotes Settings" to Insert =>
> > Footnote and Endnote...
> +1
Which .uno is being proposed here?

1. The "Settings" dialog (.uno:FootnoteDialog) (i.e., the one current found in the Tools menu) would not make sense in the Insert menu (because nothing is inserted).

2. Meanwhile the current "Footnote or Endnote" (.uno:InsertFootnoteDialog) dialog in the Insert menu does not make so much sense.  afaict, in the standard toolbar interface, its only value is to make a "custom" footnote anchor (which it does not remember).  The other features in that dialog are useless, given the context where it appears in the Insert menu. 

It might be better to strip down the dialog to just have the possibility to add the anchor, and rename it "custom footnote/endnote" (where it also remembers the last used choice).

But this .uno is also used in several of the notebook interfaces, and I do not know how this proposed change would interact with those variations.
Comment 13 Eyal Rozenberg 2023-06-06 19:59:46 UTC
I'm reminded of my related - and apparently later - bug 133820: Difficult to set/override footnote separator line direction
Comment 14 Eyal Rozenberg 2023-06-06 20:32:36 UTC
I agree with Telesto's description of the problem, but not with all of his concrete suggestion. 

About Telesto's three points:

* I don't see how you can integrate an insertion dialog with a settings dialog.
* Agreed, that's my point (3.) below, but see also my point (4.) about the same for endnotes.
* I suggest the opposite direction. You see, the whole-document settings should not direct you to single-page-style-specific settings, but the other direction does make sense.

Here's what I think I would do:

1. Make Footnote numbering page-style-specific: Bug 155712. That would naturally move the numbering setting from the document-level Tools-menu dialog to the Page Style dialog's Footnotes tab.
2. (Maybe) Rename the "Insert | Footnote and Endnote | Footnote or Endnote" dialog an "Out-of-order Note" or a "Special Note", and only allow choosing the single character (or string) to use as the reference, without allowing autonumbering.
3. (Maybe) have an entry for "Insert | Footnote and Endnote" to open up the current Page Style's dialog at the Footnotes tab.
4. (Maybe) have a fourth menu entry open up the Endnote Page Style's dialog at the Footnotes tab. (Of course, that brings up the fact that it's not clear to the user that Endnotes = Footnotes in special EndNote pages.)
5. Add a button to the Page Style dialog's Footnotes tab which takes you to the document-level Footnote Settings dialog.
Comment 15 Commit Notification 2023-06-09 13:01:07 UTC
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/0b1a8cc4a59fadd83bdcf13ba88bb8f68d02e106

tdf#125876  "Footnotes and Endnotes" -> "Footnote/Endnote Settings"

It will be available in 24.2.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 16 Heiko Tietze 2023-06-19 09:53:10 UTC
We discussed the topic in the design meeting and agree mostly with Dieter's suggestions in comment 7.

+ rename "Tools > Footnote and Endnote" to "Footnotes/Endnotes Settings"
+ add "Footnotes/Endnotes Settings" to the context menu of footnote anchor
     + should be the fact right now

+ rename "Insert > Footnote or Endnote" to "Insert Special Footnote/Endnote" (instead of the suggested "Edit Footnote/Endnote")

Easy hackable...
Comment 17 Commit Notification 2024-01-10 08:15:18 UTC
Kira Tubo committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/99261442d9e7d2e5bcee2a8987ff8fe89225f3a4

tdf#125876 Update uno Footnote/Endnote labels

It will be available in 24.8.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 18 Commit Notification 2024-01-14 23:14:28 UTC
Kira Tubo committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/help/commit/be416c32550aa2fe0c0cfa94b437848a280261bb

tdf#125876 Update online help for Footnote/Endnote