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Bug 136432 - NB Tabbed 'Layout' panel, any changes modify the active Page style
Summary: NB Tabbed 'Layout' panel, any changes modify the active Page style
Status: RESOLVED NOTABUG
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
7.1.0.0.alpha0+
Hardware: All All
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: needsUXEval
Depends on:
Blocks: Notebookbar-Tabbed
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2020-09-03 12:38 UTC by Telesto
Modified: 2020-09-21 10:59 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


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Description Telesto 2020-09-03 12:38:43 UTC
Description:
Tabbed toolbar Layout, Page orientation changes the orientation of the default style

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Open Writer
2. User Interface -> Tabbed
3. Layout tab -> Orientation -> Set landscape
4. Right click inside the document -> Page style -> Page tab


Actual Results:
The default page style page orientation has been changed

Expected Results:
I assume we are working with styles.. so this must be wrong


Reproducible: Always


User Profile Reset: No



Additional Info:
Version: 7.1.0.0.alpha0+ (x64)
Build ID: 1e0cfd5662d95cea84e80e4fe10d52c3b1101ae6
CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 6.3 Build 9600; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win
Locale: nl-NL (nl_NL); UI: en-US
Calc: CL
Comment 1 andreas_k 2020-09-08 07:36:18 UTC
I'm a bit confused. When I click Orientation -> Set landscape the page orientation switch. When I go to Page style the page orientation is there also landscape.

I don't see an issue.
Comment 2 Heiko Tietze 2020-09-18 12:52:10 UTC
Telesto's expectation is that the command for Orientation:Landscape applies the style Landscape rather than modifying Default. What's your take, Maxim?
Comment 3 Maxim Monastirsky 2020-09-18 13:39:02 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #2)
> Telesto's expectation is that the command for Orientation:Landscape applies
> the style Landscape rather than modifying Default. What's your take, Maxim?
I think most users would expect it to do the same as Format > Page Style... and the sidebar Page deck, and not to switch styles. And in general, users interacting with various toolbar/NB formatting buttons probably have just the format changing in mind, and not some style switching to happen behind the scenes - unless they explicitly chose to use styles toolbar or styles mode.

Also, if this button really meant to switch styles, what should happen when "Portrait" is selected, as we don't have a style named like this?
Comment 4 V Stuart Foote 2020-09-18 14:07:45 UTC
Review the bug 126608 see also. The NB Tabbed UI 'Layout' controls modify the selected style, by default the 'Standard' template default's Portrait mode. The fix for the see also bug 126608 was to change the "Format -> Page" to be "Format -> Page Style"


Should the NB controls on the Layout tab be labelled similarly, or handled via a tooltip?  

Or should at least the 'Orientation' control be adjusted to switch between the page styles (Default-portrait / Landscape). 

The other NB Layout controls likewise "modify" the active page style.
Comment 5 Dieter 2020-09-18 14:23:23 UTC
I agree with Stuart. Behaviour is the same as in standard toolbar. So I don't see a need for a change and I won't expect that changing page orientation to landscape is the same as changing to page style landscape. But we should make it more visible(e.g. with tooltips), if changes to the layout affects the current page style.
Comment 6 Heiko Tietze 2020-09-18 18:37:55 UTC
Conclusion: NAB

Thanks for submitting the issue anyway and to all commenters for evaluating the idea.
Comment 7 V Stuart Foote 2020-09-18 18:43:23 UTC
The 'Layout' tab for *both* the NB Tabbed & Tabbed Compact MUFFIN assemblages behave this way.

Page style for a new document with Standard template is 'Default Page Style' which defines portrait mode.  And modifications via the 'Layout' tabe are made to the active style. It is not a Direct Formatting--rather a legitimate change to the style.

So, a More correct work flow would be to make a Page style selection from the SB Page Styles content panel, or from the Status bar--and as needed to modify that.

Behavior of the NB 'Layout' tab is not wrong, just that many of the modifications it makes to Page style are better handled (even required to be handled) with creation of a new Page styles, or selection of a different 'standard template' page style and modifying that.

So is this a just a documentation issue? Solved with labeling, help, & tooltips?
Comment 8 Telesto 2020-09-19 19:08:19 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #6)
> Conclusion: NAB
> 
> Thanks for submitting the issue anyway and to all commenters for evaluating
> the idea.

Thanks for the replays. I was already mentally reconsidering my view. So my original change proposal might not be the solution. And might acted to quick on my gut feeling this is not right (without proper understanding what cases this).

And attempt to pinpoint my source of my feeling/ the issue.
- I often wan to rotate only 1 or 2 pages; not the whole document. So rotating they Default Page Style won't to the trick. Say I have 2 pages doc with page break in the middle, and I want to rotate page 2. I go to Layout tab -> Orientation -> Set landscape (result: both pages rotated). As far I can recall this works in MSO

In addition the tabbed bar not clear where the change is made. I excepted it to be a page style change (as I was fiddling with that when switched to Tabbed)

The core concern: Format Page Style (or tabbed bar) invites to workflow which doesn't deliver the expected results (in numerous cases). 

Secondly it's not to obvious to 'find' the landscape Page style; rather deeply buried away in the sidebar (which needs to be enabled). And right clicking the page style in the status bar I didn't even consider (only after Timur pointed it out). I mostly use the status bar literally as 'status bar' (so 'read only'; without functionality.

And even 'with that' it isn't going to well. Empty document; Press CTRL+ENTER. Know right click the status bar -> Page Style Landscape.. Now both pages are landscape :-(. 

The issue, there are two ways of 'going to landscape' but only one works structurally (page styles). And you have to set it in 'paragraph styles -> Text flow'

Another subtle issue is the ability to change the page orientation of landscape style to portrait; technically correct. However might at this point the name doesn't fit the bill anymore :-(. And if you fiddled around with page orientation in tabbed mode this might be even more likely to happen. So having a page style called Landscape, not doing landscape anymore.

However not sure how to fix this. Switching to a different page style, means you lose all the changes made, say margin and stuff


---
Sometimes I think. Should default page style and say portrait style being stock/ locked styles. So put again differently styles outside the style hierarchy. So people can revert to default style, which currently isn't the case if the messed around with it. So people should always create a new style to be able to modify 

If a 'child' is created from' default page style, all present pages (and new pages) are switching from default locked (to the new created one). 

People can always go back to the top style (untouched/stock) stuff.. 

Actually the same feeling with default paragraph style. The default page style should be simply a stock/locked style. Which can't be changed. So people can 'revert back to' stock ("default") page style. Currently the 'stock/initial page style' can be modified where the default page style is the default page style in that  document, but not the default page style (as shipped by LibreOffice). So the 'default page style' of untouched new document. 
 
The proposal is only what 'pops to mind'; so surely not full-blown well thought out UX concept. And maybe not the answer.. And I probably ruining (somebody's) design etc. 

However rotating pages is slightly complex compared to MSO, if it's up to me. 


-> FWIW: My bug reports start more or less with gut feeling; so more or less shoot first think later; feedback, argh, I forgot something (or a lot).. lets try again.. I might keep people unnecessary busy this way; but needs sometimes a few days before I notice some flaws in my report...
Comment 9 Dieter 2020-09-20 06:27:24 UTC
Telesto, it seems to me, that you want to change LO concept about page style - no goog idea to me. I can't see, that you've read documentation about page styles before. So please
1. Read the manual
2. Focus your comment on the current theme of the bug or open a new bug report, if you propose a new concept of handling page styles


=> Back tio RESOLVED NOTABUG
Comment 10 Heiko Tietze 2020-09-21 09:49:50 UTC
(In reply to Telesto from comment #8)
> - I often wan to rotate only 1 or 2 pages; not the whole document. So
> rotating they Default Page Style won't to the trick.

I can follow this argument. But there is likely a ticket, please search first.