Description: Preferred user interface: Should popup prior to Tip of they day (not being embedded within) Steps to Reproduce: 1. Open Writer with clean profile 2. Tip of they day appears with a pointer to dialog (and ugly screenshot) Actual Results: Preferred user interface dialog must be manually opened from Tip of they Day dialog Expected Results: Dedicated dialog (no manual intervention clicking from Tip of they day) I mostly click they tip of they day away blindly (think gets pretty annoying at some point) Reproducible: Always User Profile Reset: No Additional Info: Version: 7.1.0.0.alpha1+ (x64) Build ID: ec1f4d3253963ac16d638734ac70dde033e82154 CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 6.3 Build 9600; UI render: default; VCL: win Locale: nl-NL (nl_NL); UI: nl-NL Calc: threaded
@Telesto: Thank you for copying me in on this bug report.
It is suitable to task of informing on first use as is. Those needing to change UI with the dialog can open on demand from the View -> User Interface... Otherwise it shows once per initial module launch, and then only with a full cylcle through the 275+ TotD. Or when user resets profile. Integration into TotD is sufficient. -1
In my understanding this is always what was proposed in Bug 117463 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117463 That was resolved as the 1st Tip of the Day was the initial dialogue. For me these are two different things, one is an advertisement (TOTD) the other a choice that provides the initial UI across Writer, Draw, Calc and Impress. I think this is the real choice that users are asking for. So I say +1 to this suggestion. And if the user then decides they don't like their choice they change it in the View menu as suggested.
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #2) > Otherwise it shows once per initial module launch, and then only with a full > cylcle through the 275+ TotD. Or when user resets profile. The dialog should be initialized by Tip of they Day window at all :-). Prior to they Tip of they Day. So not triggered by a full TofD cycle :-) And i'm slightly rigorous.. So they initial setting is tabbed for all or toolbar for all. No distinction for separate applications.. (yes, if set manually afterward, but not in the first run phase). Doing this for every application separate is simply cumbersome and don't think many will opt for that.. And yes, at a profile reset they dialog Preferred user interface should appear. That's the whole idea. If you don't want that; safe a copy of clean profile and place it back.
While some want to advertise the Notebookbar by showing the UI dialog directly after the first start there are many who disagree with this in-your-face marketing. The compromise was to use the TotD dialog that shows up at the first start anyway to run the action. => clear WF for me (but I'll keep the ticket open).
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #5) > While some want to advertise the Notebookbar by showing the UI dialog > directly after the first start there are many who disagree with this > in-your-face marketing. The compromise was to use the TotD dialog that shows > up at the first start anyway to run the action. => clear WF for me (but I'll > keep the ticket open). I wouldn't call it in you're face marketing. It's simply a configuration dialog at first start. Don't see they difference with TofD. That dialog is also thrown in you're face, I didn't ask for it :-). And a some point superfluous as you have seen them all (or starting over again after profile reset). So sometimes I wish it where an opt in system instead of opt out :-). Especially if are using fresh profile more often (testing daily's an such). So I click that thing away without reading.. It's only co-incidence it found it :-) Anyhow. I don't see it as 'throw it in you're face'. I did think there was already a understanding here (but clearly not). Many unnamed people (at least from my perspective) At some point I want this even member vote; to have some 'reference'. There not so many people around here. And the whole dialog thing is already a compromise. In the sense that people actually wanted to changed the default GUI to tabbed (as Collabora did) already. They next step was that all design should be available So putting that thing into TofD equals for me to have no dialog at startup :-). With progress being 0%. They whole point is make people prominently aware of the existence of the tabbed dialog.
This is an enhancement request in my opinion.
Lets add few alternatives: -> Info bar tooltip (blue header bar) at first launch suggesting UI change? -> Or sometime as proposed here bug 138061
I ran into https://peertube.luga.at/videos/watch/0fa32a0a-43d9-4081-84b2-e092c1f71251 (starting from 30 minutes) which again makes me wanting this. And because I want to go forward.. adding Mike because of they presentation. Also spoke with Thorsten about this, so adding Thorsten too. [FWIW not sure who to include, so kind of arbitrary] Whatever the outcome will be... however like do something and reaching a decision before beta..
Hi guys, I'm only new here, but wanted to share my experience with TotD. So I downloaded LO, first launch, 100% new user, Tip of the Day pops up. My original intention was just to draft an e-mail. I had no problems getting started due to my familiarity with similar products, such as MS Word. Scores high on learnability. However, I did not find the TotD useful or relevant to my user journey today. I read it and clicked it down. I got a tip unrelated to my user goal. How might we create a better, more user-centred experience?... It's great to have different themes and customized UI. Do we have any data on what users prefer when choosing a custom UI and whether we should push this choice at launch? For a new user with a clear goal of quickly drafting an e-mail and getting the job done, I focused much less on UI, and much more on simple, frictionless task completion, that I got with LO today.
(In reply to Gabby from comment #10) Should that not be a separate bug? (In reply to Telesto from comment #0) > Description: > Preferred user interface: Should popup prior to Tip of they day (not being > embedded within) Should we not give up on TotD if we bring up another dialog? It could be "sprung" on the user for the first time on the second launch of LibreOffice perhaps.
I would also +1 this option. Furthermore, include in it the option to change the theme from Light to Dark to automatic. As Eyal said, Tip of the Day could then pop up on second launch.
I would also like to give my plus 1 to this suggestion, it seems a very practical solution and has been said by Pedro it should also include light/dark/automatic.
About a light/dark choice on that dialog: Do you guys also want that choice to be available via View | User Interface on the menus , or do you want a different, special dialog for the first startup?
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #14) > About a light/dark choice on that dialog: Do you guys also want that choice > to be available via View | User Interface on the menus , or do you want a > different, special dialog for the first startup? Hello Eyal, I think a dialog on the first startup would be helpful, this could be used for the dark/light/ follow system mode as well as the choice of a dark or light canvas. Along with the UI interface selection I see these 3 decisions as likely the most important for users to define. I wouldn't want this to be too intrusive, just an informative decision to empower an end user to better use LibreOffice for their personal needs. I believe OnlyOffice has something broadly like this, I have thought in the past that Ubuntu MATE has a nice first run 'wizard' that helps their users. There is a balance between information and distraction and I feel that a few limited screens could be very helpful.There could also be a link to make a donation or seek help, however, that might be a different discussion however. I do think that there still needs to be an option to revert any choice in the menu structures as invariably users may wish to change their decision at a later point.
(In reply to John Mills from comment #15) I'm ok with everything you said, I'm just asking the technical clarification of whether the suggestion is to have at first startup would be the exact same dialog as in View | User Interface (in which case anything considered for addition in one is also added to the other) or whether the suggestion is to have a different dialogue at first startup and via View | User Interface.
IMO, this dialog should be the same as the View -> User Interface dialog. No point to add another dialog. However, I believe that the option to select the Appearance (Light, Dark, System) that Caolan placed in Options -> View -> Appearance should be available in the View -> User Interface dialog as well to be more visible.
Presenting it on *First launch* (rather than the ToTD) has always been feasible but continues to be a bit intrusive. And of course it has always been modal independently for each LO module. Some merit to use the View -> User Interface landing for all facets of Theming But, in a sense its function now is exactly the interactive control, beyond first launch pop-up, it needs to be. It is not clear that now adding additional UI theming elements makes the most sense--the View -> User Interface selector would get overwhelmed. So where would we consolidate controls for theming LibreOffice? Seems reasonable to add a "More..." link from the View -> User Interface, and point it at a Tools -> Options panel. But which Options panel? One can question if placement of the LibreOffice color theme (System | Light | Dark) belongs on the Tools -> Options -> View panel "Appearance" control? That was Caolán's prerogative as it was being implemented. But no requirement for it to remain there. Instead, note there is still much to be worked out to refactor the Tools -> Options -> Personalization panel (bug 125217) moving appropriate controls from other panels. That would be a reasonable landing. Alternatively a User Interface "More..." could receive a complete new dialog panel similar to the Help -> Restart in Safe Mode dialog to consolidate theming and personalization configuration. In short the MUFFIN centric 'User Interface' dialog is maybe not the best place to pile on additional controls.
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #16) > (In reply to John Mills from comment #15) > > I'm ok with everything you said, I'm just asking the technical clarification > of whether the suggestion is to have at first startup would be the exact > same dialog as in View | User Interface (in which case anything considered > for addition in one is also added to the other) or whether the suggestion is > to have a different dialogue at first startup and via View | User Interface. My personal opinion would be the first run selection choice would be completed with either a radio or a checkbox selection choice to ensure the task is as simple as possible for the end user. Within the selection screen there could be a line of text (or screenshot) indicating where the choice could be amended later if required. The choice should be unobtrusive and quick to complete.
I would like to weigh in on this topic, as a veteran user and observer of new LibO users. Regrettable Tip of the day is insufficient, sometimes it goes unnoticed and does not solve the underlying problem. Showing the interfaces dialog can be a solution, but it would be necessary to add more interface options or create a welcome screen dialog that includes relevant options to customize on first use. The options could include interface, dark/light theme, show/hide sidebar, put left or right sidebar or even select default font, which many users who have MS fonts modify to have the typical Arial, TNR, etc. . This would make it more enjoyable for a new user to migrate to LibreOffice.
Big +1 for have the font stuff at a welcome wizard so the import of docx files will be improved if Arial or some other fonts are selected.
Many of these additional UI theming ideas, including "first startup" would be more suitable to place on a substantially reworked Tools -> Options -> 'Personalization' panel--where dumping the old Mozilla theme crap, bug 125217, is long overdue. Much less so as changes to the the View -> 'User Interface...' dialog and the current UI picker. Even the concept of "first startup" is a misnomer for the vast count of installations. Many distributions would never allow it to launch, and for folks doing their own installation--they'd blow through it on launch after install and NEVER see it again (even with the TOTD). So, since it is in need of refactoring to dump the old Mozilla style UI theming, let's plan to do something useful with the 'Personalization' panel and assemble the useful UI controls there. Then the 'Personalize' dialog could then be linked from the View toolbar directly, or even linked from the 'User Interface...' dialog.
There certainly is some growing momentum for this time "user wizard" which really would be very beneficial for end users of LibreOffice. As I wrote previously I would see this having the UI selection, something on light and dark mode, the fonts is a fantastic idea too and aid in interoperability. This is sorely what is needed with LibreOffice, in a world where Microsoft has >90% of the Office space this is a way to draw more users to FLOSS software. This first-run dialog could also be a way to steer users to where they can find online help, make donations, join forums and participate in the project. The key being that every user would see this. It only has to be a few choices that would be completed in under one minute. This could be the "angle" that marketers are looking for in a potential version 8. TDF could sell this as "LibreOffice is the world's most versatile Office suite and we are empowering our users to create something that works best for them, something the commercial competitors can't." Or something to that effect, the key being the user has the choice to customise LibreOffice to their own expectations. I can not see how those advocates of FLOSS software do not want to empower users by presenting to them some of the wonderful features that LibreOffice has to offer.
I disagree with this part STuart: "Even the concept of "first startup" is a misnomer for the vast count of installations. Many distributions would never allow it to launch, and for folks doing their own installation--they'd blow through it on launch after install and NEVER see it again (even with the TOTD)." Linux users are very much in the minority of LO users, and how can you say with certainty Linux distros would stop this? If users have to make a choice then they can't "blow through it" as you say, especially with Windows and MacOS where this would be part of the installation essentially. Moving a first run "wizard" to a sub-selection of a user menu completely undermines the purposes of this request.
(In reply to haevalencia from comment #20) > create a welcome screen dialog that includes relevant options to customize > on first use. (In reply to andreas_k from comment #21) > have the font stuff at a welcome wizard so the import of docx > files will be improved if Arial or some other fonts are selected. Andreas, Ha-Valencia - I've opened bug 154593 about a welcome screen/dialog, please continue the discussion about what should or should not appear on a welcome dialog over there.
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #22) Agree with John's comment about this. Also, let's move the discussion about possible welcome-dialog items other than UI selection to bug 154593. Stuart, remember that bringing up the UI selection dialog on first startup is the compromise we seem to have reached in the heated argument regarding the default choice of UI. Please let's not re-tread this again.
So, it seems there is still disagreement from Stuart about having the UI selection dialog _itself_, not a TotD linking to it. I misinterpreted his comment #18 as a grumbling agreement, which it wasn't, and I apologize. However - Stuart, I would like to ask you to actually agree to this, as it settles the heated argument we've had about the Default UI, in a way that only somewhat favors the menu+toolbars, and gives a "fighting chance" to the tabbed UI. Your suggestion of having the dialog only linked to from the TotD slants things much further in favor of menu+toolbars. About the dialog being intrusive/annoying - I don't believe it is more intrusive than the TotD, and certainly it's not significantly more intrusive. One needs to dismiss both of them if one doesn't want to do anything. So, can we have your agreement?
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #27) > So, can we have your agreement? Nope! Doers decide, and this was decided/implemented as for bug 117463 with https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation -- that remains sufficient in all cases. Discussion(s) of exposing the 'User Interface...' dialog as here, or of now expanding somehow into a "Welcome" dialog on first launch (bug 154593) still promote an ill-conceived "need" for user UI configuration on first launch! It is not required and it would not improve the UX for first time users, nor at user profile reset. Rather it would just get in the way and be superfluous for the vast majority of users. There are better and less intrusive ways of conveying "Getting started" guidance than with a pop-open "configure before proceeding" style dialog. So -1, and keep it as implemented. But also look at rework of the Tools -> Options -> Personalize, Application Colors, and View panels for a location to consolidate & document the UI theming and config choices. And document that via Infobar and TOTD in addition to Help menu.
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #28) > (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #27) > > So, can we have your agreement? > > Nope! Doers decide, and this was decided/implemented as for bug 117463 with > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation -- that remains sufficient > in all cases. > > Discussion(s) of exposing the 'User Interface...' dialog as here, or of now > expanding somehow into a "Welcome" dialog on first launch (bug 154593) still > promote an ill-conceived "need" for user UI configuration on first launch! > > It is not required and it would not improve the UX for first time users, nor > at user profile reset. Rather it would just get in the way and be > superfluous for the vast majority of users. > > There are better and less intrusive ways of conveying "Getting started" > guidance than with a pop-open "configure before proceeding" style dialog. > > So -1, and keep it as implemented. > > But also look at rework of the Tools -> Options -> Personalize, Application > Colors, and View panels for a location to consolidate & document the UI > theming and config choices. And document that via Infobar and TOTD in > addition to Help menu. Stuart, I remind you of what you said in that bug report you lnked to: Bug 117463 - Create a Dialog that shows up on first boot of Writer/Calc/Impress for the user to pick its default UI "V Stuart Foote 2020-08-07 13:35:41 UTC Grudgingly I recast position to +1, as alternative to changing default UI from 'Toolbar, Menu & Dialog' to one of the GLADE based MUFFIN Notebook Bar assemblages. As noted, the picker dialog per module would likely be light on detail--i.e. TotD. Interested to see what Hieko mocks up. But the heavy lifting on MUFFIN Notebook Bar documentation remains to be done." Your position is certainly untenable in the longer term, despite your objections that are founded on an irrational dislike for user freedom to choose a paradigm that works best for themselves. You certainly can not be an arbiter for how users best interact with LibreOffice when functionality like UI selection, light and dark preferences and canvases colours materially impact on how you use LibreOffice. The example provided by Andreas regarding Microsoft fonts is another excellent idea and something many users have no idea about and promotes interoperability. So +1 to this idea, let's promote the functionality that LibreOffice has to offer by highlighting this through a start-up "wizard" or first-time installation option, rather than hide this functionality through obscure option paths.
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #28) > Nope! Doers decide, That's only very partially true. Doers don't decide policy - the community decides, via the TDF, the ESC and so on, taking into account the opinions of developers and other stake-holders. Of course doers need to be willing to go along with such decisions as otherwise they don't get implemented. Now, in some contexts, it is a norm that doers decide, and in others it is explicitly agreed by relevant "non-doer" bodies that doers will decide some specific matter. ... but this is not one of these contexts. It's a matter of usability, convenience, the question of attracting new users, user "education" and so on. And developers are not equipped to make such a decision better than other community members. > and this was decided/implemented as for bug 117463 with > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation -- that remains sufficient > in all cases. 1. Bug 117463 was resolved in 2021. But the main discussion about the choice of default UI and how to settle the conflicting opinions and considerations was conducted mostly on bug 135501, and continued into 2022, also with this bug. 2. On bug 117463, Heiko said that "We had a controversial discussion how to implement this" - but it's not clear who had this discussion and whether it was about whether to go through a TotD or about how to implement the TotD approach. 3. Documentation is never a way to resolve a problem with the app or the UI; it is ever only a secondary mechanism. (Ok, that's my personal view of things, I don't know that this is project policy, although it really should be.) > Discussion(s) of exposing the 'User Interface...' dialog as here, or of now > expanding somehow into a "Welcome" dialog on first launch (bug 154593) still > promote an ill-conceived "need" for user UI configuration on first launch! It's a fair compromise - IMHO - with the proponents as the tabbed UI as the default. Granted, one could argue that doing this before at least some of the 140 open bugs (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=102062&hide_resolved=1) against the notebookbar are resolved is premature/irrelevant, but when it's mature enough, then I believe that most people see this as the fair compromise. But maybe I should speak for others less and let more people opine on that point (so far on this bug, this is the position of Telesto, John Mills, myself, Pedro, haevalencia, andreas_k; and Heiko seems to be neutral about it?). > It is not required and it would not improve the UX for first time users, nor > at user profile reset. Rather it would just get in the way and be > superfluous for the vast majority of users. How would it get in the way more than a Tip of the Day? > There are better and less intrusive ways of conveying "Getting started" > guidance than with a pop-open "configure before proceeding" style dialog. But the conscious, almost-explicit, user choice of UI is the compromise between "current UI as default and that's that" and "Let's make the tabbed UI the default". And the UI selection dialog is already biased in "our" favor, since the default selection is menu+toolbars. How would you get close to an explicit user choice between UI types otherwise? (In reply to John Mills from comment #29) > Your position is certainly untenable in the longer term etc. To be perfectly honest - in the long run, I hope the fad of tabbed interfaces will go away, and everyone will wonder why people had done this to themselves... But that can hardly happen if the tabbed UI is not given a "fair shake": Its proponents are making the valid point that LO is tilting the scales too far in favor of the menus+toolbar interface. So my reason for asking Stuart to agree with displaying the dialog itself is actually my _disdain_ for the tabbed interface :-P (plus the allowance for the possibility that I may be wrong.)
(In reply to John Mills from comment #29) > Stuart, I remind you of what you said in that bug report you lnked to: > Uh, NO. The discussion there was over the even worse proposal of making the half baked Tabbed Notebook Bar UI the default, as countered by the resulting proposal of delivering a functional UI selection means. That evolved and was in the end implemented as our current View -> "User Interface..." dialog, only accessible from the Main menu View and in several flavors on the NB UIs, absent the "make a configuration choice before use" facet. I can't say I objected to that dev decision on its implementation in that fashion, but time shows it was the correct choice--where are the users clamoring for implementation? 11 users and 0 duplicate BZ issues... Frankly keeping this issue open for the few vocal proponents continues to waste a lot of UX-Design effort. There is no developer interest in pursuing, only mixed support among the UX-Design circles and frankly nothing indicating this, or the bug 154593, is a tenable requirement for the project going forward. Sorry.
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #31) > but time shows it was the correct choice--where are the users > clamoring for implementation? 11 users and 0 duplicate BZ issues... > > Frankly keeping this issue open for the few vocal proponents continues to > waste a lot of UX-Design effort. That's a straw man argument. Users don't clamor on our BZ generally. And do I need to mention the number of participants in a typical LO design meeting? Plus - how many of our users are actually aware of the tabbed UI, the way things stand right now? Still, this is not the hill I want to die on, so let other people argue about it.
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #30) >... developers are not equipped to make such a > decision better than other community members. >... Umm, better check that perspective. The devs are all community members with nuanced perspective as to manipulation and maintenance of the source cross platform. Personally I trust their perspective more than I would end users barking for their favorite enhancements. The project is very much a meritocracy, driven by the source that is developer crafted peer reviewed and then built for QA testing/distribution. The UX - Design process aids to some extent, but it does not lead it in any sense. Doers decide that is reality. (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #32) >... > Plus - how many of our users are actually aware of the tabbed UI, the way > things stand right now? > ... "aware of the tabbed UI" or how many would actually "use it" given its half baked status compared to Menu - Toolbar - Sidebar UI framework that just functions.
Stuart it's funny that you talk about "doers deciding" but are always salivating at the mouth about discarding the Tabbed UI, that some doers decided about and actually implemented it. It seems more that you have a pathological hatred against the Tabbed UI and are just doing your best to sabotage its adoption by people that would benefit from using it because of your subjective opinion that it has a "half baked status compared to Menu - Toolbar - Sidebar UI framework that just functions.". I use the Tabbed UI daily in LibO. To me, it works better than the Menu - Toolbar - Sidebar UI that just functions according to you. So it's my personal taste against yours. IMO, no unanimity is needed to move this forward. We have VSF who is against and we have me, John and Eyal who are in favour 3 against one. Democracy wins.
(In reply to Pedro from comment #34) Your wording is inappropriate, please stay polite. Stuart was always an advocate of alternative MUFFIN concept _additionally_ to the classic UI.
Where am I being inappropriate? VSF has repeatedly advocated for discarding the Tabbed UI as well as he's here voting against representing all UIs available equally. Why? Does it threaten his world view if more users select the Tabbed UI?
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #33) > (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #30) > >... developers are not equipped to make such a > > decision better than other community members. > >... > > Umm, better check that perspective. The devs are all community members with > nuanced perspective as to manipulation and maintenance of the source cross > platform. The devs (and many QA people like me) have wide experience using computer software, different apps with various UI styles. And they are typically more perceptive and perhaps even intelligent than the average person who needs to do simple office or personal document authoring. That's a bias. Some people are better able to correct for that bias - but even the question of _how_ to correct for this bias is a matter for debate. > The project is very much a meritocracy, driven by the source that is > developer crafted peer reviewed and then built for QA testing/distribution. I believe what you're saying contradicts the formal and perhaps the practical way things work in the TDF, but perhaps we're going out of scope too much with this argument. > (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #32) > "aware of the tabbed UI" or how many would actually "use it" given its half > baked status aware. (In reply to Pedro from comment #34) > that some doers decided about and actually implemented it. IMHO, it is not yet properly implemented. That is, our entire argument here is somewhat premature. If it were up to me, tabbed UI would need to be more ready before even being exposed. And I believe Stuart's argument is that no developer is interested in having a tabbed UI in LO enough to continue working on its implementation. > IMO, no unanimity is needed to move this forward. We have VSF who is against > and we have me, John and Eyal who are in favour 3 against one. Democracy > wins. My support is conditioned on progress towards properly completing the implementation of the tabbed UI, i.e. resolving some of the more painful issues blocking bug 107237. Regardless - this should certainly not decided by a majority among 4 people opining on a bug.
As I'm planning to advertise the new features per release in a dedicated dialog (bug 154593), this dialog could also be used to show important aspects of LibreOffice in general on the very first start. And among those information we surely should tell users about the opportunity to change the UI. (I'm aware that this is not a selection dialog; still against a configuration on first start. Please reset the assignee if you/someone disagrees with my approach.)
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #38) > (bug 154593) - is a duplicate for me but actually asking for exactly what I am doing (bug 159573)
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #38) Does this have any bearing on "tip of the day"?
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #38) > As I'm planning to advertise the new features per release in a dedicated > dialog (bug 154593), this dialog could also be used to show important > aspects of LibreOffice in general on the very first start. And among those > information we surely should tell users about the opportunity to change the > UI. > > (I'm aware that this is not a selection dialog; still against a > configuration on first start. Please reset the assignee if you/someone > disagrees with my approach.) Hi Heiko, Regarding your suggestion on informing users about several UI options are available in LibreOffice, how would you feel about not having the option to directly choose the UI in the information dialog screens (thus keeping the messages static), however as a workable compromise instead provides a tab or an option (check box) in your overview explanation screen that opens the current UI selection (view/UI) options post the information messages (so it wouldn't be jarring by moving a user to a dialog during an information cascade) and only if a user so wants to and explicitly wants to change the default. You could default any selections to be off and only then if a user expressly chooses would they ever see the selection choice post any messages that are displayed in your proposed feature?
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #40) > Does this have any bearing on "tip of the day"? Good point, I have to suppress the TotD when the other dialog is shown. (In reply to John Mills from comment #41) > ...how would you feel about not having the option to directly choose the UI > ... instead provides ... an option (check box) in your overview -1 It feels wrong to ask users for configuration on the first start but the actual blocker is the envisioned flexibility. I want let marketing handle all advertisement, and if they decide to have image/text in some form it should be possible.
Heiko Tietze committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/dd889b290304b73f96a9a8e6e0f144d3aa2ba7e1 Resolves tdf#159573 and tdf#137931 - WhatsNew or Welcome dialog It will be available in 24.8.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
It's ok in Version: 24.8.0.0.alpha0+ (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community Build ID: a69e32a0ca800642a3fb542c0a49a13ba04faecc CPU threads: 16; OS: Linux 6.5; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3 Locale: ro-RO (ro_RO.UTF-8); UI: en-US Calc: threaded The resolution I think can be improved.
Unless the requested description is complete then this bug report is not resolved. "Show the UI selection dialog on first start-up" This is an enhancement but it doesn't resolve the request. It's akin to saying, "I would like a steak dinner upon visiting the restaurant." Resolved. "When you visit the restaurant you will now be provided with fish and Wine." It's not quite the same thing is it?
Agree, we can't really close this with Heiko's effort for bug 154593 (Eyal's suggestion), apples <==> oranges... removed the gerrit target. But then this issue really should just be closed with outcome of bug 117463, and practical acceptance of the View -> 'User Interface...' picker only resident on the View menu. In place for 3 years and 7 major releases since the 7.1 builds. Instead this was/is a dupe of bug 137427 and should have been closed as such when dev (Heiko) made that choice. In either case project is unlikely to move forward now with an intrusive "Show the UI selection dialog on first start-up". Sure it could make it into work on a first use "Welcome Screen" now in at 24.8, but I'd not support that creep. Broader per user UI configuration belongs in Tools -> Options (including selections from the current 'User Interface...' picker). So I'll simply => WF this -- @Heiko if you want it put to bed, add it to a UX-Advise agenda and we'll formally resolve it closed there. Otherwise, Heiko's work on bug 154593 is new territory and feature should be given over to Marketing for refinement of the graphics.
*** Bug 137427 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
No one is ultimately the arbiter of what is intrusive or not. This is why statements such as this are unhelpful. "So I'll simply => WF this -- @Heiko if you want it put to bed, add it to a UX-Advise agenda and we'll formally resolve it closed there." This bias is unhelpful for the broader LibreOffice community. The UI picker should be one constituent of a broader "first run wizard" that customises LibreOffice for our end users. This will increase satisfaction and empowerment. Surely things that a community should strive for. IMO ==> Fix and promote user choice and some notional opinion of "feature creep."
(In reply to John Mills from comment #48) > No one is ultimately the arbiter of what is intrusive or not. This is why > statements such as this are unhelpful. > > "So I'll simply => WF this -- @Heiko if you want it put to bed, add it to a > UX-Advise agenda and we'll formally resolve it closed there." > > This bias is unhelpful for the broader LibreOffice community. The UI picker > should be one constituent of a broader "first run wizard" that customises > LibreOffice for our end users. This will increase satisfaction and > empowerment. Surely things that a community should strive for. > > IMO ==> Fix and promote user choice and some notional opinion of "feature > creep." And? What is the title / summary of this issue? Of its dupe bug 137427? Its done--over--resolved!
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #46) > But then this issue really should just be closed with outcome of bug 117463, > and practical acceptance of the View -> 'User Interface...' picker only > resident on the View menu. So, is that Tip-of-the-Day what we're going to have going forward, or is it going to be: (In reply to Commit Notification from comment #43) > https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/ > dd889b290304b73f96a9a8e6e0f144d3aa2ba7e1 > > Resolves tdf#159573 and tdf#137931 - WhatsNew or Welcome dialog ? Also, can someone please post a screen-capture video of the new dialog?
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #49) > (In reply to John Mills from comment #48) > > No one is ultimately the arbiter of what is intrusive or not. This is why > > statements such as this are unhelpful. > > > > "So I'll simply => WF this -- @Heiko if you want it put to bed, add it to a > > UX-Advise agenda and we'll formally resolve it closed there." > > > > This bias is unhelpful for the broader LibreOffice community. The UI picker > > should be one constituent of a broader "first run wizard" that customises > > LibreOffice for our end users. This will increase satisfaction and > > empowerment. Surely things that a community should strive for. > > > > IMO ==> Fix and promote user choice and some notional opinion of "feature > > creep." > > And? > > What is the title / summary of this issue? Of its dupe bug 137427? > > Its done--over--resolved! It's not resolved, and it's note a duplicate.
Not a duplicate, sorry.
Created attachment 193360 [details] screenshot This is how it looks.
(In reply to BogdanB from comment #53) I meant, the part regarding UI selection. And, if possible, a video showing how one selects the UI mode via this welcome screen.
@Eyal from what I can understand is that there isn't anything about selecting a UI option or configuration preference currently. Justinfo on new features of LibreOffice/ the community.
I am against closing the bug, because from what I've seen the proposed solution does not answer the request. 8 know there are some people against implementing this but this obssession on trying to supress the majority that wants this is distasteful and just shows that some people just want to act as gatekeepers instead of contributors.
(In reply to John Mills from comment #55) > @Eyal from what I can understand > is that there isn't anything about selecting a UI option or configuration > preference currently. Justinfo on new features of LibreOffice/ the community. Then, it seems to me that what we're seeing is a gradual degradation of the accessibility of the tabbed UI: * First we were arguing about maybe making it the default UI * Then the idea was to open the UI selection dialog at startup * Then it's just an informative dialog telling you that you can change the UI mode * And now it seems even that is in jeopardy Regardless of what any of us thinks about the tabbed UI, this is effectively a sort of "salami tactic" of just burying it. It is really not fair and unacceptable. (And I say that as someone who doesn't like the tabbed UI at all.)
I agree Eyal, enough people don't like it(tabbed UI), don't want to see it improved and are able to act as "gatekeepers" to stop people even having an easy way to access it. Very frustrating, but it needs to be realised this is ultimately detrimental to LibreOffice adoption. Empowering your users to be able to customise their personal experience is only positive. This bug report is now an information cascade (which is good) as opposed to the actual request.
Another point that is relevant for this discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1c2j4pl/comment/kzavxnz A public sector organization in Brazil will migrate their systems to Ubuntu and OnlyOffice.one of the main reasons mentioned by one of the responsible for said migration? User rejection of the default standard UI of LibreOffice. The tests were performed with the stock configuration instead of the Tabbed UI.
https://fosstodon.org/@libodesign/112285659953746809 According to the results of the poll placed on fosstodon.org, which had 520 respondents, 20% of respondents didn't know that there were alternative UIs present in LibreOffice. If even in the users of a federated network, with an over-representation of technology savvy people, 20% of people don't know about the alternative UIs that LibO offers then for the more general population that number will probably be even higher. This to me demonstrates the need to implement the UI selection dialog on first start-up as Free Office and Softmaker Office do. The current Tip of the day is clearly not working.
From a marketing perspective: we know that many users are still completely unaware that a tabbed user interface exists, and complain or say they won't install it for others because of the "old-fashioned" menu+toolbar interface. So IMO a first-run dialog showing that a tabbed interface is an option is very important. (I'd even be in favour of making tabbed the default in new installs in 2025, but that's something else.)