Bug 138748 - Replace label "Language" with "Locale" where relevant in dialogs
Summary: Replace label "Language" with "Locale" where relevant in dialogs
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: UI (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
Inherited From OOo
Hardware: All All
: medium trivial
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard: target:7.5.0 target:7.4.0.0.beta2 inR...
Keywords: difficultyMedium, easyHack, skillDesign, topicUI
Depends on:
Blocks: Dialog-UX
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Reported: 2020-12-08 18:44 UTC by Andreas Säger
Modified: 2024-03-01 09:41 UTC (History)
9 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


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Description Andreas Säger 2020-12-08 18:44:49 UTC
Could we replace the term "Language" with the term "Locale" in all number format dialogs, in Calc's text import dialog and HTML import dialog? The default setting we overwrite here is the global locale as set in the language options. "Locale" describes how text is converted to numbers. "Language" describes how human language is spell checked and auto-corrected. "Language" in the context of number recognition is inconsistent.
Comment 1 Heiko Tietze 2020-12-11 10:48:12 UTC
Not objecting the idea, but normal users understand "language" maybe better than the more precise term "locale". Eike, what do you think?
Comment 2 S.Zosgornik 2020-12-11 12:02:48 UTC
On MS Windows all advanced number settings are done inside the "Region" dialog.
I like the term because there are clear distinctions between U.K. English and U.S. English as it is between Germany German and Luxembourg German.
But the term "Locale" also fits more than language.
Comment 3 Andreas Säger 2020-12-12 11:06:58 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #1)
> Not objecting the idea, but normal users understand "language" maybe better
> than the more precise term "locale". Eike, what do you think?

The entire UNO documentation and the global language settings distinguish between human language and locale for numeric expressions. But in the user interface everything is language. Language and locale describe different things and should be labeled accordingly, possibly with a short explanation in the help files.
Comment 4 Heiko Tietze 2020-12-15 08:39:33 UTC
Okay, let's do it. Seth, one for you?
Comment 5 Roman Kuznetsov 2020-12-15 09:59:19 UTC
I would want hear answer of Eike about it because I personally don't like the idea
Comment 6 Mike Kaganski 2020-12-15 10:13:44 UTC
I agree with the proposal.

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #1)
> normal users understand "language" maybe better than the more precise term "locale"

See bug 137175 comment 6 for a real-life case when the improper use of "Language" made user think it relates to yet another somewhat related entity - encoding, while in fact that was about locale.

So the presumed understanding is in fact a mix of at least three concepts: what spell checker checks (language), how it is stored (encoding/codepage), and how things like numbers/dates are formatted (locale), which should always be clearly distinguished in the UI.
Comment 7 sdc.blanco 2020-12-15 10:38:41 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #4)
> Seth, one for you?
No. Looks like a case where the patch-maker needs to know the precise meaning of word choices and changes, and also track down all the places where this appears (cf. comment 6). My knowledge is inadequate here.
Comment 8 Eike Rathke 2020-12-15 20:28:10 UTC
Care has to be taken that there are only a few places where it would actually make sense to replace Language with Locale (and indeed would be more correct).

One is of course the number formatter's Language/Locale, one other Tools -> Options -> Language Settings -> Languages, Formats, Locale setting already correctly is named Locale. Other two adhoc coming to mind are CSV and HTML import dialogs. There may be more of course.

All places related to spell-checking, grammar, ..., i.e. the font character/paragraph attribution, should continue to use Language, even if the language listbox has the same entries as the locale listbox (or actually the locales list is a subset of the languages list) and the entries may contain a combination of language and country (plus further information related to the actual language tag, e.g. dictionary), and even if (in Writer) the attribute may affect field content in that it also determines the number format. Or name it "Language/Locale" to clarify perhaps.
Comment 9 pedro.silva 2022-07-01 08:47:44 UTC
136725: tdf#138748 Correct group label in HTML import dialog | https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/136725

136724: tdf#138748 Correct label locale group in CSV dialog | https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/136724
Comment 10 Commit Notification 2022-07-01 10:08:01 UTC
Pedro Pinto Silva committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/05b80bc0cc082dd571bebbbc2de97e8de7499e86

tdf#138748 Correct group label in HTML import dialog

It will be available in 7.5.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 11 Commit Notification 2022-07-01 10:08:10 UTC
Pedro Pinto Silva committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/5ced993524305bad3c8f6637639e133f423cd285

tdf#138748 Correct label locale group in CSV dialog

It will be available in 7.5.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 12 Commit Notification 2022-07-01 13:08:11 UTC
Pedro Pinto Silva committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-7-4":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/05ad8b9c1b56c602bbfaa568a87e00de253167bd

tdf#138748 Correct label locale group in CSV dialog

It will be available in 7.4.0.0.beta2.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 13 Commit Notification 2022-07-01 13:09:20 UTC
Pedro Pinto Silva committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-7-4":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/a23172e88c3f82d590bba31894c0935067ee7c13

tdf#138748 Correct group label in HTML import dialog

It will be available in 7.4.0.0.beta2.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 14 Stéphane Guillou (stragu) 2022-12-10 23:55:19 UTC
Verified the two commits in:

Version: 7.5.0.0.alpha1+ (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: ad085990b8073a122ac5222e5220f8f1d6826dcf
CPU threads: 8; OS: Linux 5.15; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3
Locale: en-AU (en_AU.UTF-8); UI: en-US
Calc: threaded

Regarding the remaining dialog mentioned in the description, the number formatting one, not sure if the situation has changed a bit since the numbers can be formatted as spelled out (e.g. "100" as "one hundred" in English). This is the features requested in bug 115007.
Would it be an example of a label that should be "Language/Locale"?
Thoughts on keeping this bug report open?
Comment 15 Mike Kaganski 2022-12-11 07:14:55 UTC
(In reply to Stéphane Guillou (stragu) from comment #14)
> Regarding the remaining dialog mentioned in the description, the number
> formatting one, not sure if the situation has changed a bit since the
> numbers can be formatted as spelled out (e.g. "100" as "one hundred" in
> English). This is the features requested in bug 115007.
> Would it be an example of a label that should be "Language/Locale"?
> Thoughts on keeping this bug report open?

IMO, locale fits perfectly, and the added format hasn't changed nothing.
Comment 16 Mike Kaganski 2022-12-11 08:02:14 UTC
(In reply to Stéphane Guillou (stragu) from comment #14)
> Thoughts on keeping this bug report open?

Definitely.
One should grep .ui files for "language", and consider each case individually. E.g., IMO one candidate is Calc's Sort dialog's Options tab, where the "Language" selector defines collation rules, i.e. that is about locale, not language.
Comment 17 Heiko Tietze 2022-12-12 07:06:58 UTC
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #16)
> One should grep .ui files for "language", and consider each case
> individually

Let's make it an easy hack, medium difficult for non-developers due to the grep thing.
Comment 18 Eyal Rozenberg 2023-05-08 10:39:44 UTC
Thanks, Mike Kaganski, for linking bug 154795 to this one. Note that in the linked bug discusses the possibility of splitting the choice of locale into a choice of language and a choice of country/locale based on the choice of language. There may be other places where this is a relevant alternative to just replacing the label.
Comment 19 Stéphane Guillou (stragu) 2023-10-12 07:53:06 UTC
Related bite-size task in bug 157716 (but not a replacement like requested here).
Comment 20 Commit Notification 2024-01-11 11:28:54 UTC
Kira Tubo committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/79f3a2655d995421c989b9479e3c63e8ebeabeb2

tdf#138748 Change label to locale in Calc sort dialog

It will be available in 24.8.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 21 Commit Notification 2024-01-16 12:39:14 UTC
Kira Tubo committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/help/commit/92f7d7e64bd5154e6b1c780cbdefe4c50a316243

tdf#138748 Help: Language -> Locale for Sort Options