I think "promote" & "demote" are not good terms for moving chapters... especially since there is a promote / demote function for the headings of the chapters... these are two different things... "promoting a heading" means increasing the heading level of a section / chapter this is great and cool... however, since "promoting a chapter" means moving it before another chapter / section, it is misleading... SURE: what comes first can be taken as being superior to what comes after it... but this is a wrong approach... cause in a text chapters with the same headings are on the same level... and that one comes before another one is simply irrelevant... SURE, the chapter number decreases as it is being "promoted" but in a normal world this shouldn't be used like this... "SUGGESTION" (or rather: "a side note", cause I'm sure it will never make it into the application since it is okay for 99% of the users as it is): it could be called "move chapter UP"... and then the term would reflect more faithfully, i.e. completely faithfully the action that it performs.. - - - - thank you for developing libreoffice - - - -
Using the same term seems not correct to me. Could imagine "Promote/Demote Level" and "Move Chapter Up/Down". But it's rather a question to the native speakers. STR_OUTLINE_LR "Promote/demote outline" STR_OUTLINE_UD "Move outline" .uno:OutlineLeft/Right "Promote/Demote" .uno:OutlineUp/Down "Move up/down" ("demote" occurs on some other places too, eg. Notebookbars) The question is about navigatorpanel.ui and navigatorcontextmenu.ui but we should take care of consistency.
Stuart, Jim: as native speaker, what's your take?
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #2) @Heiko, yes you've suggested a correct usage in comment 1 Promote/demote for outlining, indenting & indexing. Move Up/down for "chapters" or for other objects being repositioned on a document canvas. Making the distinction in technical en for core is valid. But seems would require additional controls, otherwise Promote/demote for chapters is recognizable and probably sufficient.
+1 for Move up/down
Heiko Tietze committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/008cfd5980f31c9e01b5cdbede33631d66f2fb56 Resolves tdf#144493 - Improve Promote/Demote wording It will be available in 7.4.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Created attachment 177908 [details] screenshot Heiko, first 4 options still have demote, promote...Could also this be changed?
(In reply to BogdanB from comment #6) > Heiko, first 4 options still have demote, promote...Could also this be > changed? Assume this is the B&N toolbar: the first items from left are labelled for me * Demote Outline Level * Promote Outline Level * Demote Outline Level With Subpoints * Promote Outline Level With Subpoints What do you expect?
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #7) > (In reply to BogdanB from comment #6) > > Heiko, first 4 options still have demote, promote...Could also this be > > changed? > > Assume this is the B&N toolbar: the first items from left are labelled for > me > * Demote Outline Level > * Promote Outline Level > * Demote Outline Level With Subpoints > * Promote Outline Level With Subpoints > > What do you expect? It's ok. I thought move up and down could be also implemented here.
(In reply to BogdanB from comment #8) > I thought move up and down could be also implemented here. Next four are * Move Chapter Up * Move Chapter Down * Move Chapter Up with Subpoints * Move Chapter Down with Subpoints (The toolbar buttons run commands, so changing labels in *xcu files will be applied here as well.)
> (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #7) > B&N toolbar: the first items from left are > > * Demote Outline Level > > * Promote Outline Level > > * Demote Outline Level With Subpoints > > * Promote Outline Level With Subpoints > > > > What do you expect? demote -> increase promote -> decrease (as proposal/suggestion) Reason: increase/decrease is what happens to the level number shown on the status bar (while promote/demote does not make sense in relation to that number)
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #9) > Next four are > * Move Chapter Up > * Move Chapter Down > * Move Chapter Up with Subpoints > * Move Chapter Down with Subpoints Propose change from: “chapter”→ “item” Reasons: 1. B&N bar appears for lists, but “chapter” does not make sense (and is confusing) in relation to list items. 2. “item” can be interpreted meaningful in relation to numbered headings (i.e., chapters), as well as list items. 3. B&N bar always appears with lists, but only appears with "chapters" (headings) if headings have numbers (e.g., from Tools->Chapter Numbering). And some queries: a. Should B&N bar also appear with unnumbered headings (it doesn't at present), given that the .unos on that bar also work in that case? b. Should "with" in the tooltip be capitalized to be consistent with the "outline level" buttons? (or the outline level buttons should not capitalize "with") Even if "title" capitalization is being used here, different styles do or do not capitalize "with", so just a matter of being consistent.
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #10) > demote -> increase > promote -> decrease The native speakers have spoken, -1. (In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #11) > Propose change from: “chapter”→ “item” Good reasons. But perhaps better suited for another ticket. Let's rest this one in peace ;-)
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #12) > The native speakers have spoken, -1. I would encourage them to look at the actual interface and reconsider. > (In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #11) > > Propose change from: “chapter”→ “item” > better suited for another ticket bug 147107
The OP for this ticket focused on Writer, but the patch in comment 5 also made changes for 4 commands in GenericCommands.xcu, presumably for the sake of consistency (see comment 1). Those changes affect Draw and Impress, which use different .unos, even if the UI command names are similar. The proposed patch in https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/133049 does the following for those 4 commands: (a) corrects a mistake in the labels, introduced by the patch in comment 5 (b) modifies the Labels in the GenericCommands.xcu file, so that there is consistency between what appears in the ”Available Commands” list and what appears in the ”Assigned Commands” (for menus), which is also consistent with the names used in the help pages. (c) adds some tooltips that actually explain what the commands do, [no changes to Writer labels/tooltips] Seemed appropriate to add this patch to this ticket, as a followup, rather than opening a new ticket, but no problem to open a new ticket if that is preferred. Background for: (a) and (part of) (b). There are no chapters in Draw and Impress, so ”Move Chapter Up/Down” is meaningless. These labels appear (only) in the Customize dialog, but still…so that is fixed in this patch. (other part of) (b) Demote and Promote got expanded in the original patch to ”Demote Outline Level” and ”Promote Outline Level”. Again, these labels appear only in the Customize dialog...but it can be confusing to see ”Demote Outline Level” as a menu choice, and then see that only ”Demote” actually gets added in Customize (and the menu). So this patch makes ”Demote” and ”Promote” appear in the Customize menus. (c ) For both pairs of commands (Pro/Demote, Up/Down), I have added a short tooltip that actually explains what each command does. In that way, the short ”Demote”, ”Promote”, that now appear in the Customize dialog also get a longer explanation). And those explanations will also appear with the icons for the Outline toolbar in Impress). (no toolbar for Draw). Additional Comments. 1. The changes in sw/inc/strings.hrc concerns what appears in the Undo dropdown box. The patch in comment 5 did not change: #define STR_MOVENUM NC_("STR_MOVENUM", "Move paragraphs") But this is the string that is actually shown when using the four commands Move Up/Move Down and Move Up/Down with subpoints. (The actual undo works fine, but for the user who wants to inspect the undo list, then all these actions get ”Move paragraphs”). I could not actually see that the following two strings ever appear in the Undo list. (i.e., could not get them to appear). STR_OUTLINE_LR NC_("STR_OUTLINE_LR", "Promote/demote outline level") STR_OUTLINE_UD NC_("STR_OUTLINE_UD", "Move chapter up/down") Have not tried to address that issue. Similar problem with Draw/Impress (but now "Indent" appears in the Undo list)
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/2f5cc5a4249feb4ffded2892aef5957d2aed192f tdf#144493 adjust changes to GenericCommands.xcu It will be available in 7.4.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/help/commit/000df5aded9b5cbe2488dc2e9c9406c6b56767c5 Related:tdf#147107;tdf#144493 update B&N bar command names and explanations
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/help/commit/bdf9af4c8847ac03d1a836f6cfc9f49053ddd95d tdf#144493 (related) command name changes require updating