Bug 147098 - Should "Region" field be missing in Options -> Libreoffice -> User Data? (or is label wrong?)
Summary: Should "Region" field be missing in Options -> Libreoffice -> User Data? (or ...
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
7.2.4.1 release
Hardware: All Windows (All)
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: difficultyBeginner, easyHack, skillDesign, topicUI
Depends on:
Blocks: Options-Dialog-UserData
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2022-01-31 20:29 UTC by joao.victor.bonfim
Modified: 2022-02-10 16:50 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:
Regression By:


Attachments
Field available in the screen (43.58 KB, image/png)
2022-01-31 22:31 UTC, Krithi
Details
Menu screen capture. (18.21 KB, image/png)
2022-01-31 23:52 UTC, joao.victor.bonfim
Details
Screen capture of a text file and a menu with an arrow pointing from an empty field into the edit field menu with which field i is (county) at the end. (6.83 KB, image/png)
2022-02-01 00:02 UTC, joao.victor.bonfim
Details
Language option UI screenshot (26.48 KB, image/png)
2022-02-03 17:24 UTC, joao.victor.bonfim
Details
User interface, state is now there. (25.31 KB, image/png)
2022-02-03 17:27 UTC, joao.victor.bonfim
Details
Field in a text file, "teste" is written (609 bytes, image/png)
2022-02-03 17:31 UTC, joao.victor.bonfim
Details

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Description joao.victor.bonfim 2022-01-31 20:29:45 UTC

    
Comment 1 joao.victor.bonfim 2022-01-31 20:33:41 UTC
Under Tools -> Options -> LibreOffice -> User data there is no field for region.
Therefore the region value can not be changed.
Comment 2 Krithi 2022-01-31 22:31:53 UTC
Created attachment 177953 [details]
Field available in the screen
Comment 3 joao.victor.bonfim 2022-01-31 23:52:10 UTC
Created attachment 177957 [details]
Menu screen capture.

Image description: Properties menu screen capture, filled fields are censored in black, Country is underlined in red and from it a red arrow is pointed to the field besides it, that is filled. Region is circled in blue and a question mark has been drawn.

If that contained the region feed then why ->
Comment 4 joao.victor.bonfim 2022-02-01 00:02:28 UTC
Created attachment 177958 [details]
Screen capture of a text file and a menu with an arrow pointing from an empty field into the edit field menu with which field i is (county) at the end.

-> why is this happening?
Specially because, in the Portuguese translation, the term for county is used instead of region.
Also, how would one change the county variable that is for sender, since the data in sender originates from the user's personal info?
Comment 5 sdc.blanco 2022-02-01 17:48:02 UTC
Confirm that Tools -> Options -> LibreOffice -> User Data has a label "Country/Region" but only one field. 

In addition:  Place cursor placed in that field, press Tab. 
     Result:  cursor moves to "title" field  (i.e., not a "hidden" region field)

Tested with:

Version: 7.4.0.0.alpha0+ (x64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 5c138ac6a8334825ef171ac6291b66b277eb4288
CPU threads: 8; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 19043; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win
Locale: en-US (da_DK); UI: en-US
Calc: CL


Asking UX to clarify whether the problem is with the label or with a missing field.
Comment 6 Heiko Tietze 2022-02-02 09:06:10 UTC
The variable is internally called just *country (cui/source/optgenrl.cxx). Same at Insert > Fields > More Fields: Document = Sender : Country. I guess we can just ignore "Region" (or remove as the slash is used to label the multi fields in this dialog) since "State" above can be used for what I have in mind in case of region, eg. Texas. Using "North America" would be pointless.
Comment 7 Ming Hua 2022-02-02 10:05:10 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #6)
> The variable is internally called just *country (cui/source/optgenrl.cxx).
> Same at Insert > Fields > More Fields: Document = Sender : Country. I guess
> we can just ignore "Region" (or remove as the slash is used to label the
> multi fields in this dialog) since "State" above can be used for what I have
> in mind in case of region, eg. Texas. Using "North America" would be
> pointless.
I don't know the exact reason LibreOffice changed its UI from "country" to "country/region", but I want to point out that "country/region" is a commonly used term as a compromise for politically disputed places that some people usually call "country", yet other people adamantly deny that it is a "country", such as Taiwan, Hong Kong, Catalonia, South Ossetia, North Cyprus, etc.

The current used slash character obviously causes user's confusion.  But dropping "region" is probably not a great idea.  Maybe we can just change the label to something else like "Country and region"?
Comment 8 joao.victor.bonfim 2022-02-03 16:24:41 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #5)
> Confirm that Tools -> Options -> LibreOffice -> User Data has a label
> "Country/Region" but only one field. 
> 
> In addition:  Place cursor placed in that field, press Tab. 
>      Result:  cursor moves to "title" field  (i.e., not a "hidden" region
> field)
> 
> Tested with:
> 
> Version: 7.4.0.0.alpha0+ (x64) / LibreOffice Community
> Build ID: 5c138ac6a8334825ef171ac6291b66b277eb4288
> CPU threads: 8; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 19043; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL:
> win
> Locale: en-US (da_DK); UI: en-US
> Calc: CL
> 
> 
> Asking UX to clarify whether the problem is with the label or with a missing
> field.

I think it is a case of both, since the "State" field is nowhere to be found and the label isn't helping either.

> The current used slash character obviously causes user's confusion.  But
> dropping "region" is probably not a great idea.  Maybe we can just change the
> label to something else like "Country and region"?

Maybe use "Territory" or "Nation or Region" instead, since "country and region" implies that both must be present simultaneously and that might induce to usage that would generate a bad design? Since, under that context, "USA, North America" would be the only "correct" usage.

> The variable is internally called just *country (cui/source/optgenrl.cxx).
> Same at Insert > Fields > More Fields: Document = Sender : Country. I guess we
> can just ignore "Region" (or remove as the slash is used to label the multi
> fields in this dialog) since "State" above can be used for what I have in mind
> in case of region, eg. Texas. Using "North America" would be pointless.

Having different assigned namespaces for the same contextual name/identifier (i.e.: not having all the labels that reference country use the same value/point to the same source for the value) and have to depend on edits for consistency on labels and such seems quite inefficient, merely an opinion.
Comment 9 sdc.blanco 2022-02-03 16:42:50 UTC
(In reply to joao.victor.bonfim from comment #8)
> I think it is a case of both, since the "State" field is nowhere to be found
> and the label isn't helping either.
(seems to) depend on the language of the user interface.
Try Tools - Options - Language Settings - Languages - User Interface 
and choose English (USA).  Then you should see State.

(I can confirm that with Danish user interface, "State" does not appear but "Country/Region" does appear).  And changing locale setting does not seem to have an effect, regardless of language of user interface. 

One final problem.  Ctrl+F2 (to open Insert - Field) - Document tab - Sender.
For the Danish interface "Delstat" is shown (which corresponds to "State"), but there is no field in the Options to specify a value for Delstat (State). I think Joao will have the same problem with a Portuguese interface.
Comment 10 joao.victor.bonfim 2022-02-03 17:24:54 UTC
Created attachment 178021 [details]
Language option UI screenshot

Switched to English (USA) as the language for the UI, as proposed, and ->
Comment 11 joao.victor.bonfim 2022-02-03 17:27:13 UTC
Created attachment 178022 [details]
User interface, state is now there.

-> and a field did indeed appear. Have yet to test it out, however.
Comment 12 joao.victor.bonfim 2022-02-03 17:31:01 UTC
Created attachment 178023 [details]
Field in a text file, "teste" is written

Inserted "test" in Portuguese on the field and it seems to work.
I suppose it is a UI inconsistency across languages?
Comment 13 joao.victor.bonfim 2022-02-08 20:48:24 UTC
No updates?
Comment 14 Heiko Tietze 2022-02-10 13:35:43 UTC
Putting all together there seems to be agreement on a better name. To keep the effort low for l10n we should go with "Country or Region".

Code pointer: cui/uiconfig/ui/optuserpage.ui

The term "country/region" is also used in the selectblockdialog.ui (and In-/ExcludeCountry which somehow comes with the mail merge function (haven't found how).
Comment 15 sdc.blanco 2022-02-10 13:55:16 UTC
Should a separate ticket be opened for the problem with:
Insert -> Field -> More Fields (Ctrl+F2) - Document tab - Sender (Type)

But note interaction with this ticket.

1.  Use Português (Brazil)  user interface.
2.  Alt+F12 - Libreoffice - Dados do usuário (User Data)
3.  Estado/Pais  (Land/Region)

The proposed change would result in:  Estatdo o País

4.  Now look in Ctrl+F2 - Documento tab - Rementente (tipo)
                          (Sender type in Document tab)

5.  In the Selecionar (Selection) column, there are options to insert fields for BOTH País (Country) and Estado (State) -- but the User Data tab (Alt+F12 - Libreoffice) does not give the possibility to enter values for both.


(same problem with Danish interface -- two fields are offered in Ctrl+F2, but only one in the User Data).
Comment 16 joao.victor.bonfim 2022-02-10 16:50:43 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #15)
> Should a separate ticket be opened for the problem with:
> Insert -> Field -> More Fields (Ctrl+F2) - Document tab - Sender (Type)
> 
> But note interaction with this ticket.
> 
> 1.  Use Português (Brazil)  user interface.
> 2.  Alt+F12 - Libreoffice - Dados do usuário (User Data)
> 3.  Estado/Pais  (Land/Region)
> 
> The proposed change would result in:  Estatdo o País

*Estado ou País

However, both, semantically, mean the same thing, so I propose "Estado ou Região" or "Estado ou território" as alternatives.

> 4.  Now look in Ctrl+F2 - Documento tab - Rementente (tipo)
>                           (Sender type in Document tab)
> 
> 5.  In the Selecionar (Selection) column, there are options to insert fields
> for BOTH País (Country) and Estado (State) -- but the User Data tab (Alt+F12
> - Libreoffice) does not give the possibility to enter values for both.
> 
> 
> (same problem with Danish interface -- two fields are offered in Ctrl+F2,
> but only one in the User Data).

I believe it might extend to user interfaces beyond those two.
So verification might be required.