Description: Default icon themes are a touchy subject. The current situation on macOS: 7.6: Automatic (Sukapura) 7.5: Automatic (Sukapura) While Sukapura is a fine icon theme, it lacks dark mode variant, which disqualifies it as default theme. For consistency reasons (Windows uses Colibre) and to support dark mode, in design chat channel it was suggested, to switch to Colibre icon theme as default for macOS. That would allow to also support automatic icon theme switching when the user changes system Appearance from light to dark and vice versa, once that is supported in LibreOffice (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=148086). Steps to Reproduce: Open LibreOffice and look at default icon theme. Switch macOS System Appearance forth and back between dark and light. Actual Results: Sukapura remains icon theme with poor visibility in dark mode. Expected Results: 1. icon theme supporting both light and dark theme should be default 2. automatic switching between icon themes supporting the selected system appearance (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=148086) Reproducible: Always User Profile Reset: No Additional Info: tested both 7.5.0.3 and todays main build.
*** Bug 153329 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
steve, when filing the issue above, have you been aware of this https://github.com/rizmut/libreoffice-style-sukapura/issues/31 Rizal's answer and poll https://fosstodon.org/@libodesign/109414678200831831 and the poll's result? Nevertheless, I back your argument to stay consistent, and I find the as-is-situation suboptimal.
Dark theme mode support for macOS only became functional at 7.5.0.3, not inherited from OOo. Until Rizal agrees and can implement a Sukapura Dark icon theme to complement Sukapura, then Sifr icon theme (light and dark) is equally viable to the Colibre icons themes. In fact at 4.4 we delivered Sifr as default on macOS builds, though shifting to Breeze at 5.0 bcz of incomplete theme and icon fall back issue. With Razal bringing in Sukapura at 7.0 (bug 130500). But Sifr got considerable design work 4.4 -> 6.1 by Matthias (bug 75256), and continued tweaks by Rizal. It is an equally viable option for given recent dark theme mode support for macOS.
I don't consider the mastodon poll representative or accessible enough to be of value. So the decision comes down to Sifr or Colibre. I personally like the updated Sifr set, however find the consistency argument rather convincing, since using the same icon set on Windows and macOS won't only make switching between OS feel more consistent for LO users, but also make documentation easier to use if icon sets actually match documentation.
(In reply to steve from comment #4) > I don't consider the mastodon poll representative or accessible enough to be > of value. I guess, it has been representative enough to the design team to let the "Breeze dark" theme the theme of choice to be the default dark theme on macOS… > So the decision comes down to Sifr or Colibre. I would prefer Sukapura and a to be created Sukapura dark, since Sukapura is a Colibre theme modified for macOS platform. > > I personally like the updated Sifr set, however find the consistency > argument rather convincing, since using the same icon set on Windows and > macOS won't only make switching between OS feel more consistent for LO > users, but also make documentation easier to use if icon sets actually match > documentation. I mean consistency NOT across Windows and macOS platform, but *within* macOS platform not firstly accross. It think, it is not needed to be visually identical between Windows and macOS platform, see for instance the UI and design of the also crossplatform available Firefox browser: its UI and toolbar icons is NOT iderntical between Windows and macOS and Linux, but very adjusted to the UI on its respective platform – the UI, the toolbar icons, the colors on macOS are others than the ones on Windows or Linux with KDE or GNOME. And it is more adjusted to what the Mac User Interface Guidelines and the OS's vendor has done with its browser Safari to be not to far away from that UI and to be more familiar for Mac users. I wish, LibreOffice would follow more THAT approach, would be more and *first* consistent on each platform *platform-wise* and NOT first consistent cross-platform-wise. In *that* sense I mean consistent, and *not* in that sense, that you describe, au contraire mon capitan. :-)
(In reply to Sierk Bornemann from comment #5) > (In reply to steve from comment #4) > > > So the decision comes down to Sifr or Colibre. Or Sukapura (Colibre theme, modified for macOS UI). Question: which theme, which icons are more Mac-like, do fit better into the current macOS UI environment, do blend better with it? Which type and kind of icons and design language do other Apple and third party apps use, which icon set of the above would blend best, would fit in best to look and feel as a natural thing rather than a foreign object? Is it really Sifr or would be? Or is or would Sukapura be a more natural fit (I am ambivalent on this, can't give an unambiguous answer on this) on the macOS platform (looking now *only* to that platform – on the Windows platform this question might be answered otherwise with another result, same on the Linux platform, because the design and icon language on each of these platforms is another respectively and should be kept firstly consistent within each platform and not firstly beyond it)?
Sierk, thanks for your input which is appreciated. > which theme, which icons are more Mac-like, do fit better into the current macOS UI environment, do blend better with it? Obviously I have been asking this myself for quite some time and honestly when looking at Pages, Number, Music, Mail and other Apple apps which mostly follow their HIG, neither Sukapura, Sifr or Colibre feel very much mac like. Since Apple goes with monochrome icons, probably Sifr or breeze are closest. I don't have objections to stick with Sukapura, although I can't tell what makes Sukapira very macOS like. Where on macOS can you find icons that are even slightly similar to Sukapura? However without a dark mode variant it is not a good choice. This is up to Rizmut as they are doing the voluntary (afaik unpaid) work of maybe adding Sukapura dark. Since they state "I have no strong preference here (macOS icon theme) but the availability of Sukapura Dark version will not occur in a short time". Or maybe money can be directed in that way in form of a tender. But I don't make those calls.
(In reply to steve from comment #7) > Sierk, thanks for your input which is appreciated. > > > which theme, which icons are more Mac-like, do fit better into the current macOS UI environment, do blend better with it? > > Obviously I have been asking this myself for quite some time and honestly > when looking at Pages, Number, Music, Mail and other Apple apps which mostly > follow their HIG, neither Sukapura, Sifr or Colibre feel very much mac like. +1 > Since Apple goes with monochrome icons, probably Sifr or breeze are closest. I am ambivalent on this: I find the Sifr icons too fat/thick, would therefore prefer the Breeze icons, which are finer/thinner, because of that, I can live with current default Breeze dark icon theme on macOS better than with Colibre. What about a look at Apples free to use Apple Developer: SF Symbols https://developer.apple.com/sf-symbols/ https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/foundations/sf-symbols/ https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/guidelines/overview ? Multicolor, Monocolor, b/w, SVG, etc. What about a new proposal: a _new_ theme, for normal and dark mode, using THESE Apple SF Symbols/icons and/or additionally icons, that are of their style, blend ideally with them, because they are of their same style and design language? If not, which ones are nearer at these Apple SF icons and blend better with them style-wise – Breeze or Sifr? Colibre and Sukapura seem to be NOT at all, on that we both seem to agree. > I don't have objections to stick with Sukapura, although I can't tell what > makes Sukapira very macOS like. Where on macOS can you find icons that are > even slightly similar to Sukapura? +1 > However without a dark mode variant it is not a good choice. +1 But as you can read, a dark mode Sukapura theme was not wanted, the poll's result is another than that. Unfortunately, I find. Is I understand Rizmut, Rizmut wanted to make the poll to have a votum to create a Sukapura dark theme, this votum didn't materialize, the votum wanted Breeze dark as dark theme on macOS (while sticking with Sukapura in normal mode). "Suboptimal" and in itself and on this particulary platform (macOS) inconsistent, I find, to say the least, to put it politely. > This is up to > Rizmut as they are doing the voluntary (afaik unpaid) work of maybe adding > Sukapura dark. Since they state "I have no strong preference here (macOS > icon theme) but the availability of Sukapura Dark version will not occur in > a short time". Or maybe money can be directed in that way in form of a > tender. But I don't make those calls. +1 LibreOffice UX Team, LibreOffice Design Team should set it as a topic, should discuss and make a decision, I think.
Things seem to have started moving, see today's comments https://github.com/rizmut/libreoffice-style-sukapura/issues/31#issuecomment-1450344859 and https://github.com/rizmut/libreoffice-style-sukapura/issues/31#issuecomment-1450364586.
Rizal Muttaqin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/e7780530b92ed898f32fb8bca9a0c150096592d6 tdf#153465 Simplify Sukapura's light variant to make easier for It will be available in 7.6.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Rizal Muttaqin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/6271aff7dcd530a7e8c5452200267960e27a7513 tdf#153465 Add Sukapura's dark variant It will be available in 7.6.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Rizal Muttaqin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "libreoffice-7-5": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/cf205699154258424b07e6ab6be8492c10da4044 tdf#153465 Simplify Sukapura's light variant to make easier for It will be available in 7.5.2. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Rizal Muttaqin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "libreoffice-7-5": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/dbbd2306146f4798af11b4a818ab9345f7f477c3 tdf#153465 Add Sukapura's dark variant It will be available in 7.5.2. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Rizal Muttaqin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "libreoffice-7-5": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/20b7903f823416c98152c9e21023b3b9124438bc tdf#153465 Sukapura Dark: Fix Impress Presenter Console & Floating Insertion It will be available in 7.5.2. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Rizal Muttaqin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/0397906df28669e6a9db58b852c357b8caacb182 tdf#153465 Sukapura Dark: Fix Impress Presenter Console & Floating Insertion It will be available in 7.6.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Rizal Muttaqin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/560a6307a1407176c1cfce77daaba38f5cc24798 tdf#153465 & tdf#153344 Sukapura Dark with 16px status bar icons It will be available in 7.6.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Rizal Muttaqin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "libreoffice-7-5": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/06f161bdd05447acfd03ecea9bc269e0f3fa7278 tdf#153465 Revise Sukapura dark variant It will be available in 7.5.3. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Final fix (targeted for 7.5.3) is a11d17640a8831fc008b383fe3614b5807bffce1