Bug 154937 - The strings "Print from top" and "Print from bottom" are confusing
Summary: The strings "Print from top" and "Print from bottom" are confusing
Status: RESOLVED NOTABUG
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: UI (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
unspecified
Hardware: All All
: medium minor
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: needsUXEval
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2023-04-20 14:14 UTC by Tuomas Hietala
Modified: 2023-05-03 07:12 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
Screenshot (46.63 KB, image/png)
2023-04-24 07:31 UTC, Heiko Tietze
Details

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Description Tuomas Hietala 2023-04-20 14:14:36 UTC
Description:
On the "envprinterpage" dialog, there are options called "Print from top" and "Print from bottom". The related extended tips are	
"Feeds the envelope with the print side face up in the printer tray." and "Feeds the envelope with the print side face down in the printer tray.", respectively.

"From top" would usually mean "starting from the uppermost part"  while "from bottom"  would usually mean "starting from the lowermost part". Using "from top" and "from bottom" to mean choosing the front side or the back side of an envelope is somewhat confusing.


Steps to Reproduce:
1. See https://translations.documentfoundation.org/translate/libo_ui-master/swmessages/en/?checksum=9abc4daaafbb87c9
and
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/translate/libo_ui-master/swmessages/en/?checksum=86fd794507d09b5b


Actual Results:
The expressions "from top" and "from bottom" are used in an unconventional/confusing way.

Expected Results:
More descriptive language is used.


Reproducible: Always


User Profile Reset: No

Additional Info:
n/a
Comment 1 Roman Kuznetsov 2023-04-22 19:15:23 UTC
UX-team, we need your advice here
Comment 2 V Stuart Foote 2023-04-22 22:03:08 UTC
(In reply to Tuomas Hietala from comment #0)
> ...
> "From top" would usually mean "starting from the uppermost part"  while
> "from bottom"  would usually mean "starting from the lowermost part". Using
> "from top" and "from bottom" to mean choosing the front side or the back
> side of an envelope is somewhat confusing.
> ...

Beleive it has nothing to do with the front or the back of the envelope, rather is dependent on the stacking and feed of envelopes of any particular printer (something LO will not have any sense of).  It is the path that a properly loaded  envelope takes through the feed (from printer's tray or feeder).

It will always print on the front of the envelope unless you don't load it correctly and invert the stack from the direction indicated on the printer.

You'll see similar "guides" on the document feeders for MFP and copiers with scanners as to which direction to load.

This is what you have to do with LO to orient the address onto the envelop as the top left of the envelope shifts with from top or from bottom feed.
Comment 3 Heiko Tietze 2023-04-24 07:31:07 UTC
Created attachment 186874 [details]
Screenshot

The envprinterpage dialog can be reached per Insert > Envelope... under the tab Printer.

It has some (potentially) nice illustration what "Print from top" vs "Print from bottom" means. Wouldn't it be better to improve this rather than using the bulky "Starting from the uppermost part", which is not more clear to me?
Comment 4 Heiko Tietze 2023-04-24 07:31:57 UTC
Rizal, what do you think?

(Besides the icons, some ordinary tooltips would be beneficial.)
Comment 5 Tuomas Hietala 2023-04-27 13:15:51 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #2)
> Beleive it has nothing to do with the front or the back of the envelope,
> rather is dependent on the stacking and feed of envelopes of any particular
> printer (something LO will not have any sense of).  It is the path that a
> properly loaded  envelope takes through the feed (from printer's tray or
> feeder).
> 
> It will always print on the front of the envelope unless you don't load it
> correctly and invert the stack from the direction indicated on the printer.
> 
> You'll see similar "guides" on the document feeders for MFP and copiers with
> scanners as to which direction to load.
> 
> This is what you have to do with LO to orient the address onto the envelop
> as the top left of the envelope shifts with from top or from bottom feed.

Thanks for the explanation, it seems I misunderstood. If "Print from top" and "Print from bottom" are commonly used in printers I guess they're good enough for LO too.

In that case the icons are misleading, though, because if you select "Print from bottom", it looks like the back side of the envelope will be printed on.

Also, aren't the extended somewhat misleading, too? If I understood correctly, isn't it the user who manually feeds the envelopes front side either up or down and then must select the appropriate option in LO? The extended tips make it sound like selecting the option in LO will flip the envelopes around in the printer.
Comment 6 Heiko Tietze 2023-05-03 06:05:31 UTC
No reply from the master of icons. Function works as expected, documentation is more or less clear, icons convey the front/back topic... => NAB
Comment 7 Rizal Muttaqin 2023-05-03 06:36:35 UTC
I'm sorry I can't comment much on the icon, if I see only the icons itself I catch that print from bottom means to print the back of the envelope. Is this as expected or not?

I need to make sure by printing to the original printer, unfortunately this can't be done because I don't have any printer.

But back to the question, is printing on the back a normal thing?
Comment 8 Heiko Tietze 2023-05-03 07:12:33 UTC
(In reply to Rizal Muttaqin from comment #7)
> But back to the question, is printing on the back a normal thing?

Depends on the printer, and I think the icons are okay (at least for KJ).