Bug 59959 - EDITING: Inputting a Decimal dot with Spreadsheet
Summary: EDITING: Inputting a Decimal dot with Spreadsheet
Status: RESOLVED NOTABUG
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Calc (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
3.6.4.3 release
Hardware: Other Windows (All)
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard: BSA
Keywords:
: 112137 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2013-01-28 08:52 UTC by Luke
Modified: 2018-07-17 09:46 UTC (History)
7 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


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Description Luke 2013-01-28 08:52:42 UTC
I'm a LibreOffice user since the beginning, since OpenOffice many years ago and LibreOffice when the team split happened.
The problem I'm talking about now exists since the first version: to enter a decimal dot in french langage/keyboard, we cannot use the number pad because it produces a real comma, so it is really impossible to do fast editing with LibreOffice Spreadsheet. And the options in Langage/Parameters never works, sometimes yes, sometimes no, and that problem last for years.
I already read on a LibreOffice forum that if it is like this, it is because in french langage, the decimal dot is a comma. Yes, you're right, BUT ONLY WITH MANUAL WRITING. In France, we ALL use the real dot as the decimal dot when using computers or calculating machine, since the earliest 1970'... When I was programming with my Commodore 64 or with my Casio PB700 in 1980', the decimal dot was already a point, even the keyboard was Qwerty. Even before when doing paper letters with the first IBM typing machine, the decimal dot was a point. By the way, I just tested OpenOffice few days ago, the same problem exists.
I'm an old geek, yes ;), and maybe your team is quite younger that me, I'm doing consulting for companies in France for long, that's why I can swear that LibreOffice will never have success in France because of such details, comforting M$ Excel :(... 
That's too bad, you should change this, it is really a small programming stuff to do..
Best Regards.
              
Operating System: Windows 7
Version: 3.6.4.3 release
Comment 1 Jorendc 2013-07-02 21:58:25 UTC
Hi Luke,

What about going to Tools > Extra > Language Settings > Languages and uncheck 'Same as local setting (,)'?

Kind regards,
Joren
Comment 2 Luke 2013-07-02 22:11:23 UTC
I'm sorry, it does not work, just sometimes. 

You wrote me last time that in french language, the comma is used as decimal separator; that's not true, but ONLY when handwrited ! In France we use the dot on keyboards, like US people !!! I'm 50, I was using the dot on my Commodore 64, my calculator TI58 always has a dot... 

And only because of this, all my customers want to keep Excel... 

My conclusion is your development team might be very young and did not care too much about this, that they could consider as detail, but that is not a detail..

Sorry....even me wen I have many numbers to manage, I avoid Libreoffice Calc...

______________________
Luc Christiany, Gérant
CYSTEME

Le 2 juil. 2013 à 23:58, bugzilla-daemon@freedesktop.org a écrit :

Jorendc changed bug 59959 
What	Removed	Added
Status	UNCONFIRMED	NEEDINFO
QA Contact	  	jorendc@libreoffice.org
Ever confirmed	  	1
Comment # 1 on bug 59959 from Jorendc
Hi Luke,

What about going to Tools > Extra > Language Settings > Languages and uncheck
'Same as local setting (,)'?

Kind regards,
Joren
You are receiving this mail because:
You reported the bug.
Comment 3 Jorendc 2013-07-02 22:20:51 UTC
Well, first of all please do _not_ reply to the email you receive, but browse directly to https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59959 and leave a comment there.

Said that:

(In reply to comment #2)
> I'm sorry, it does not work, just sometimes. 
> 
> You wrote me last time that in french language, the comma is used as decimal
> separator; that's not true, but ONLY when handwrited ! In France we use the
> dot on keyboards, like US people !!! I'm 50, I was using the dot on my
> Commodore 64, my calculator TI58 always has a dot... 
> 
> And only because of this, all my customers want to keep Excel... 

Yes ... that's what you said in your description... And BTW, as far I remember I didn't say that about the decimal separator.
 
> My conclusion is your development team might be very young and did not care
> too much about this, that they could consider as detail, but that is not a
> detail..

Well, we have a very diverse team :), but that isn't to be discussed in this bug report. If you complain about it, please join and volunteer your time too. If not ... well ... read a bit more about how Open Source works :-). I'm doing this also in my spare time, so stop ranting about it. Thanks in advance

> Sorry....even me wen I have many numbers to manage, I avoid Libreoffice
> Calc...

What I suggested was a logical 'solution' to me. What do you mean with 'it does not work, just sometimes'? So that 'solution' does work on and off? Sometimes you can type a ',' and sometimes a '.'?

Kind regards,
Joren
Comment 4 Luke 2013-07-02 22:45:09 UTC
Sorry, I'm on the road and only iPhone on me...

Yes, it works sometimes, when changing in Windows config panel...

My opinion is: it should be the dot for french by default, and an option to change it by a comma, but inside Libreoffice of its own, and not depending on Windows config. Most of users are unable to tune their own Windows...

Time to sleep in France...;)

______________________
Luc Christiany, Gérant
CYSTEME

Le 3 juil. 2013 à 00:20, bugzilla-daemon@freedesktop.org a écrit :

Comment # 3 on bug 59959 from Jorendc
Well, first of all please do _not_ reply to the email you receive, but browse
directly to https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59959 and leave a
comment there.

Said that:

(In reply to comment #2)
> I'm sorry, it does not work, just sometimes. 
> 
> You wrote me last time that in french language, the comma is used as decimal
> separator; that's not true, but ONLY when handwrited ! In France we use the
> dot on keyboards, like US people !!! I'm 50, I was using the dot on my
> Commodore 64, my calculator TI58 always has a dot... 
> 
> And only because of this, all my customers want to keep Excel... 

Yes ... that's what you said in your description... And BTW, as far I remember
I didn't say that about the decimal separator.

> My conclusion is your development team might be very young and did not care
> too much about this, that they could consider as detail, but that is not a
> detail..

Well, we have a very diverse team :), but that isn't to be discussed in this
bug report. If you complain about it, please join and volunteer your time too.
If not ... well ... read a bit more about how Open Source works :-). I'm doing
this also in my spare time, so stop ranting about it. Thanks in advance

> Sorry....even me wen I have many numbers to manage, I avoid Libreoffice
> Calc...

What I suggested was a logical 'solution' to me. What do you mean with 'it does
not work, just sometimes'? So that 'solution' does work on and off? Sometimes
you can type a ',' and sometimes a '.'?

Kind regards,
Joren
You are receiving this mail because:
You reported the bug.
Comment 5 Jorendc 2013-07-02 23:07:27 UTC
@Sophie, Arnaud: Any input on this one? I'm not a native French speaker :).

Thanks in advance

Kind regards,
Joren
Comment 6 Mike Kaganski 2013-07-03 02:32:16 UTC
As Joren said in Comment 3.

And even if you have to reply using email, you can express your respect to others by simply removing the cited text from your reply, to keep discussion readable.
Comment 7 Luke 2013-07-03 06:35:27 UTC
How can you dare to speak about respect with the agressive way you use to talk to a such simple user like me since your first mail ? You are speaking to a 50yo well educated man, well I hope ..

Consider I said nothing about the bug, if the whole Libreoffice team is like you, I prefer to use M$ Office...
______________________
Luc Christiany, Gérant
CYSTEME

Le 3 juil. 2013 à 04:32, bugzilla-daemon@freedesktop.org a écrit :

Comment # 6 on bug 59959 from Mike Kaganski
As Joren said in Comment 3.

And even if you have to reply using email, you can express your respect to
others by simply removing the cited text from your reply, to keep discussion
readable.
You are receiving this mail because:
You reported the bug.
Comment 8 sophie 2013-07-03 06:51:38 UTC
Hi Luc, 
(In reply to comment #7)
> How can you dare to speak about respect with the agressive way you use to
> talk to a such simple user like me since your first mail ? You are speaking
> to a 50yo well educated man, well I hope ..
> 
> Consider I said nothing about the bug, if the whole Libreoffice team is like
> you, I prefer to use M$ Office...

@all: Some French, just to clear the situation. 
Luc, si vous souhaitez discuter, je vous invite à rejoindre nos listes francophones. Bugzilla est un outil pour les développeurs qui ne sert qu'a détailler précisément les rapports concernant les dysfonctionnements ou les demandes d'amélioration. 

Now concerning your issue, we need a clear description on how to reproduce your problem. You said that language setting option sometimes work, sometimes not. Could you add more details about that or come to our list so we can narrow the problem together? Thanks in advance. Kind regards - Sopĥie
Comment 9 Tomaz Vajngerl 2013-07-03 08:32:01 UTC
I can confirm this. If you change the decimal separator in "Control Panel" > "Region and Settings", this is not reflected in LibreOffice (with or without "Same as local setting (,)" checked). There is also no other way, except changing of locale, to set your decimal separator to another value.
Comment 10 QA Administrators 2015-04-01 14:42:57 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 11 tommy27 2016-04-16 07:25:48 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 12 QA Administrators 2017-05-22 13:27:42 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 13 Timur 2017-08-16 16:44:26 UTC
This bug wasn't touched for 4 years. But real problem is that it's not clear: what is exact expected scenario, steps and result? 

What I understand is this: 
French use "," as decimal symbol/separator and nothing/space as digit grouping symbol.
You say "In France, we ALL use the real dot as the decimal dot when using computers or calculating machine" but it's not clear what it means; do you insert dot and have it changed to comma or what. 
Do you want to type "." in number pad (because . is there in FR and , in US keyboards) and to have it recognized as decimal separator so "," is really inserted?

Proposed solution was to uncheck Tools > Extra > Language Settings > Languages and uncheck 'Same as local setting (,)' because 
https://help.libreoffice.org/index.php?title=Common/Languages&Language=en-US says: 
"Decimal separator key - Same as locale setting
Specifies to use the decimal separator key that is set in your system when you press the respective key on the number pad.
If this checkbox is activated, the character shown after "Same as locale setting" is inserted when you press the key on the number pad. If this checkbox is not activated, the character that your keyboard driver software provides is inserted."

I can't test this myself, since I have "," on number pad, so we need French users with ".".  
And we need to know what it means "language setting option sometimes work, sometimes not". 

Tomaz is right, but I guess that this bug is not about changing the decimal separator in "Control Panel" > "Region and Settings". Or we need to rewrite this one. Anyway, best to test with physical French keyboard.
Comment 14 Timur 2017-08-31 14:19:26 UTC
*** Bug 112137 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 15 palmierivinc.ent 2017-09-05 11:05:55 UTC
I confirm the problem with Libreoffice 5.x and Ubuntu:

In french language, the comma is the decimal separator, but most french users also use numpad dot as a decimal separator.

No matter if "Same as local setting" is checked or not, i can't use the dot as a decimal separator. It is not comfortable and it's a behavior different than most desktop applications, so it may be annoying. By the way, the checkbox "Same as local setting" doesn't look to have any effect.

I reported the same issue in bug 106202.
Comment 16 Jean-Baptiste Faure 2017-09-08 09:30:08 UTC
Please, see my comment on bug 106202 : https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106202#c4

Best regards. JBF
Comment 17 QA Administrators 2018-07-03 14:15:25 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 18 palmierivinc.ent 2018-07-03 17:39:07 UTC
I can't reproduce this bug with LO 5.3.7.2, Windows 10 and the default french keyboard layout. "Same as local setting" is enabled by default and it makes the expected job.

To be exact, the pad key for the decimal separator gives a comma, and this comma is properly interpreted as the decimal separator.

It may be confusing for some users, because this key holds a dot but, to me, this is definitely not a bug, as it's the same behavior as in any existing software, and there is no problem with fast editing.
Comment 19 Jean-Baptiste Faure 2018-07-17 09:46:05 UTC
(In reply to palmierivinc.ent from comment #18)
> I can't reproduce this bug with LO 5.3.7.2, Windows 10 and the default
> french keyboard layout. "Same as local setting" is enabled by default and it
> makes the expected job.
> 
> To be exact, the pad key for the decimal separator gives a comma, and this
> comma is properly interpreted as the decimal separator.
> 
> It may be confusing for some users, because this key holds a dot but, to me,
> this is definitely not a bug, as it's the same behavior as in any existing
> software, and there is no problem with fast editing.

Thank you. So closing as NotABug.

Best regards. JBF