Bug 62332 - FORMATTING: Allow to assign Layouts to Master Slides, effectively creating a new "Master Slide+Layout combination" for presentations in Impress
Summary: FORMATTING: Allow to assign Layouts to Master Slides, effectively creating a ...
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Impress (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
Inherited From OOo
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard: BSA
Keywords:
: 132941 144606 144751 147797 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks: Master-Slide ImpressDraw-Enhancements
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2013-03-14 10:25 UTC by bugquestcontri
Modified: 2022-08-10 07:41 UTC (History)
10 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:
Regression By:


Attachments
Consequence: Impress - independent of layout the background is always of the initial Master Slide (234.58 KB, image/png)
2022-04-06 11:21 UTC, Pedro
Details
Expected Behaviour: Powerpoint has Master Slide + Layout combo (151.02 KB, image/png)
2022-04-06 11:28 UTC, Pedro
Details
Expected Behaviour: WPS Office (137.84 KB, image/png)
2022-04-06 11:29 UTC, Pedro
Details
Expected behaviour: OnlyOffice (979.01 KB, image/png)
2022-04-06 11:29 UTC, Pedro
Details
Expected behaviour: Softmaker Office (109.63 KB, image/png)
2022-04-06 11:36 UTC, Pedro
Details
Ideal behaviour for end user: Impress. Select Master Slide, slide with different layout has the respective Master Slide + Layout selection. (64.62 KB, image/jpeg)
2022-04-06 11:41 UTC, Pedro
Details

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Description bugquestcontri 2013-03-14 10:25:29 UTC
Problem description: 

Currently the master slide has only the layout "Title, Content". 

Solution:
For productivity increase it would be excellent if 
1 - other layouts could be chosen
2 - additional place holders could be inserted.

This is not only my personal request but in AskLibO related questions and request are coming up frequently . The last one is:
http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/6356/apply-layout-to-slide-master/?comment=14335#comment-14335

I am willing to test.
Operating System: Windows XP
Version: 3.6.5.2 release
Comment 1 A (Andy) 2013-03-24 19:09:10 UTC
marked as enhancement request
Comment 2 Callegar 2016-05-14 16:36:47 UTC
I would like to second this enhancement request.

Point 1 is extremely important IMHO.

If you need to set up a master with a background that is irregular and must not get overlapped with the slide contents, this is almost indispensable. Otherwise, too easily you end up with a master page that is OK only for the default layout and that visually breaks whenever you move to another layout (e.g. two columns).
Comment 3 Martin Sourada 2019-01-25 15:14:32 UTC
IMHO, as it's actually not layouts but different Master slides from single Template, it would make sense (and probably be also easiest to implement) to import all the Master slides from the selected Template and let the user switch between them afterwards (via the Used section). As it is now it's very misleading, especially to new users and students.
Comment 4 José Luis 2019-02-22 19:40:22 UTC
A very useful enhacement requirement.

At least a few more layouts should be added, for example: Content over two content
 
 -----------------
|                 |
 -----------------
 -------   -------
|      |  |       |
 ------    -------

And content over three content. 

But adding the layout to the master would also be great.
Comment 5 NISZ LibreOffice Team 2021-09-21 09:17:08 UTC
*** Bug 144606 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 6 Cor Nouws 2022-04-05 10:34:19 UTC
*** Bug 144751 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 7 Cor Nouws 2022-04-05 10:37:42 UTC
*** Bug 147797 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 8 Cor Nouws 2022-04-05 10:40:23 UTC
*** Bug 132941 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 9 Cor Nouws 2022-04-05 10:47:15 UTC
I worked on trying to untangle the various issues around layouts and master slides. There are only three categories:

=1= Make slide Layouts editable; allow to create custom slide Layouts
(see bug 78156)

=2= Allow to assign Layouts to Master Slides, effectively creating a new "Master Slide+Layout combination" for presentations in Impress
(bug 62332)

=3= Make another layout available by default
Example of that category: [FORMATTING] there is no slide layout 'Comparison' available (bug 147289)
Comment 10 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:21:57 UTC
Created attachment 179347 [details]
Consequence: Impress - independent of layout the background is always of the initial Master Slide

One of the consequences of this issue is that because of the current behaviour of Impress, when a user selects a different layout, the background does not change from the title slide.
Comment 11 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:28:38 UTC
Created attachment 179348 [details]
Expected Behaviour: Powerpoint has Master Slide + Layout combo

The expected behaviour from any user coming from any Office suite, or for that matter even if by selecting a distinct layout is to see a different background between Title layout and any other layout. 
Without an automated shift or quick and easy way to quickly change this, the user is left with the impression that something is broken because the  behaviour is arcaic, manual and cumbersome compared to literally any other Office suite in existence today (exception being Open Office and derivatives).

Outlined example from Powerpoint.
Comment 12 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:29:09 UTC
Created attachment 179349 [details]
Expected Behaviour: WPS Office
Comment 13 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:29:42 UTC
Created attachment 179350 [details]
Expected behaviour: OnlyOffice
Comment 14 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:36:50 UTC
Created attachment 179351 [details]
Expected behaviour: Softmaker Office
Comment 15 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:41:16 UTC
Created attachment 179352 [details]
Ideal behaviour for end user: Impress. Select Master Slide, slide with different layout has the respective Master Slide + Layout selection.

Conseuqently the expected behaviour for any user that tried any other office suite would be the following:
Select a Master Slide from the available to use options. When adding a new slide with a different layout, the slide would adopt the respective Master Slide + Layout that is specific to the selected theme.
Comment 16 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:42:53 UTC
Regardless of layout, when selecting Candy in Master Slides, the background is always the one from Title layout of Candy template

In Impress when selecting a Master Slide, it does not take into account the slide layout.
If I have multiple slides with different layouts and I select a different master slide, it does not adopt the template type for its layout type.

Steps to reproduce:
1 - Open Impress, do not select any template in dialog box,
2 - Create new slides with different layouts ("Title", "Title, Content", "Title and 2 content", etc),
3 - Go to Master Slides in Sidebar and select an "Available for use" Master slide.

Expected behaviour:
Selected Master slide will take layout of slide into account. Example: "Title, content" layout will adopt "Title, content" layout from select Master slide template.

Observed behaviour:
Regardless of slide Layout, implemented Master Slide is always "Title" layout of selected template.
Comment 17 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:43:14 UTC
Addendum to Expected behaviour:
When selecting a different Master Slide to a slide with a layout other than "Title" layout, the background of the slide should NOT be the same as "Title" layout but adopt a different one.
That is the behaviour in other office suites.
Comment 18 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:43:56 UTC
It does not mean exactly that... My expectation is not to have a master slide that fits a certain (content) layout. This wouldn't lead to restriction of workflow or having exactly the same number of master slides as (content) layouts. My point is that Master slides should behave similarly to  other office suites, namely:

Users expect Master Slides to work as Themes/Templates on Powerpoint/WPS/OnlyOffice. The current workflow is completely different and much more cumbersome.
The method in other Office suites:
1 - Go to design tab,
2 - Select a Theme/Template,
3 - Title Slide and following slides adopt selected theme: Title slide adopts a different background from following slides.

The method in Impress:
1 - Go to Master Slides,
2 - Select a Master Slide,
3 - Only selected slide adopts selected theme. It ALWAYS adopts Title slide background regardless of Layout.

Then how to select a different background for Layouts other than Title Slide?
Method:
1 - Select all the other slides besides Title slide,
2 - Select Change Slide Master in Layout tab,
3 - in Available Master Slides dialog click Load,
4 - Select Category "Presentations" -> desired template in "Templates",
5 - Select the desired Slide Design.

The user has to do this for multiple slides either by changing the master slide individually for each slide or by selecting All the slides where to do this.
As you said Candy has a lot of master slides. When a user goes to the Master slides Sidebar, he only sees the title Master slide and he has no way to select a different Master slide from Candy unless he does all the extra steps I mentioned.
In any other office suite, having a Title Master Slide applied to Title Layout slides, and a different Master Slide to other layouts is a one-click affair. In LibreOffice it is an extraordinarily involved process that involves digging through dialogs and selecting all the slides where to apply the desired different master slide.
Comment 19 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:46:36 UTC
Comment from Regina Henschel in #147797

The "Slide Layout" in the UI determines placeholders for Title, Subtitle and Outlines, for example. Such are represented as element <presentation:placeholder> in ODF. These placeholder elements are bundled in an container element <style:presentation-page-layout>.

The page itself has an attribute presentation:presentation-page-layout-name to refer to an element <style:presentation-page-layout>. And the page itself has an attribute draw:master-page-name to refer to an element <style:master-page>. But a master-page has no way to contain information about a presentation-page-layout. Only the single page connects master-page and presentation-page-layout.

Although we can do nothing in the file source we could provide a better UI.

You can base a new document on a template. But then you get all the other parts like pre-filled text objects as in case of template "Candy".

The sidebar offers "available" templates, but that gives only the first master-page of the chosen template.

The dialog "Load Master Slide" fetches all master-pages of the chosen template and shows them in the dialog "Available Master Slides". But then you can select only the one for the current slide. For another slide you need to go the way Slide > Change Slide Master > Load > Select Category > Select Template > OK > Select master-page > OK again.

The UI misses an option to load all master-pages of an template or document at once and provide them for later use in the presentation.

I can image to change the sidebar/toolbars/menues in this way:
The section "Available for Use" or a new section contains a collection of master pages, not of template-thumbnails. You could provide the presentation name in addition to the slide name in the tooltip.
There is an option to load all master-pages from a template or from an existing document.
There is an option to enable the user to select, which master-pages are stored in the document, even if they are not yet used. Presentations are often created in several sessions and there should be no need to fetch master-pages again and again.
There is an option to enable the user to remove a master-page from the document, if the user no longer needs it.
Comment 20 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:47:40 UTC
Further comment from Regina Henschel in #147797:

(In reply to Pedro from comment #23)

> Steps to reproduce:
> 1 - Open Impress, do not select any template in dialog box,
> 2 - Create new slides with different layouts ("Title", "Title, Content",
> "Title and 2 content", etc),
> 3 - Go to Master Slides in Sidebar and select an "Available for use" Master
> slide.
> 
> Expected behaviour:
> Selected Master slide will take layout of slide into account. Example:
> "Title, content" layout will adopt "Title, content" layout from select
> Master slide template.
> 

That is  not possible, because the layout ("Title", "Title, Content", "Title and 2 content", etc) is not part of a master slide. A master slide has no information about a layout.

Changing this would not only require changes in core but in the ODF standard too.

However, UI improvements are possible (see my comment 15).
Comment 21 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:48:55 UTC
My comment on #147797

How can I submit a request to add the functionality to .odf that will allow to tackle this?
Comment 22 Pedro 2022-04-06 11:49:36 UTC
Regina Henschel comment on #147797:

(In reply to Pedro from comment #33)
> How can I submit a request to add the functionality to .odf that will allow
> to tackle this?

https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=office#feedback
Comment 23 Pedro 2022-04-06 12:09:37 UTC
Sent an e-mail to OASIS as Regina Henschel suggested to address the issue.
Comment 24 Regina Henschel 2022-05-10 20:38:39 UTC
The ODF-TC has created issue https://issues.oasis-open.org/projects/OFFICE/issues/OFFICE-4127. It is set to "ODF-Later". That means, that the ODF-TC has postponed further work on it till an application developer team is going to implement such feature, and the ODF-TC hopes the developers will contact the ODF-TC to discuss a suitable extension of the ODF standard.

The TDF is planning a tender "Decouple master slide and layouts". The wording of the title is misleading, but for details see https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Budget2022#Decouple_master_slide_and_layouts where this bug report is referenced.

Discussion about the tender will take place on the "board-discuss" mailing list. For details (subscribe, archive) about the list see https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/.