Bug Hunting Session
Bug 94091 - Removing File > Printer Settings
Summary: Removing File > Printer Settings
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: LibreOffice (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
Inherited From OOo
Hardware: Other All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/...
Whiteboard:
Keywords: needsUXEval
Depends on:
Blocks: Printer-Settings
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2015-09-10 11:59 UTC by Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired)
Modified: 2017-12-21 22:12 UTC (History)
7 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


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Description Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2015-09-10 11:59:05 UTC
At last friday's design session, heiko, bubli and i were discussing the removal of the File > Printer Settings menu item as it doesnt provide any customization of print options that arent already in the Print dialog and in Tools > Options. Kendy was also in agreement in yesterday's design meeting. So if anyone has objections of this removal, please do let us know your reasonings.
Comment 1 Cor Nouws 2015-09-10 12:40:46 UTC
There is still a discussion on the UX list, where this is part of.
Promise to look at it ASAP.
Comment 2 pierre-yves samyn 2015-09-10 12:47:49 UTC
Hi

This menu item allows you to set options (choice of printer for example) *without printing* the document.

This can be used in conjunction with the "Load printer settings with the document"
See https://help.libreoffice.org/index.php?title=Common/General_6&Language=en-US&System=WIN&Version=5.0#bm_id813156

I've had to use but exceptionally.
My two cents.

Regards
Pierre-Yves
Comment 3 Cor Nouws 2015-09-14 15:15:46 UTC
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #1)
> There is still a discussion on the UX list, where this is part of.
> Promise to look at it ASAP.

See this discussion
  http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg07254.html
and e.g. my most recent post
  http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg07308.html

The File > Printer settings makes sense to be able to set the default printer (and tray) for a document. Esp. if there are files that random people in an organisation print by just hitting the print icon.


The discussion mentions two options w.r.t. the plan to (re)move that menu:

1. make it possible to do the same settings in dialog Page style.
2. make an option in File > Print to do settings without printing (shrug ..)

So just removing the menu, is not an option.
Comment 4 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2015-09-14 21:23:13 UTC
(In reply to pierre-yves samyn from comment #2)
> This menu item allows you to set options (choice of printer for example)
> *without printing* the document.

So you want to set the printer you want to print to, but dont actually want to print the document. Can you elaborate on this?

> This can be used in conjunction with the "Load printer settings with the
> document"
> See
> https://help.libreoffice.org/index.php?title=Common/General_6&Language=en-
> US&System=WIN&Version=5.0#bm_id813156

This setting is on by default in LO, which means printer settings are always saved into documents when a user hasnt specifically asked it to do so, which seems like a waste.

(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #3)
> The File > Printer settings makes sense to be able to set the default
> printer (and tray) for a document. Esp. if there are files that random
> people in an organisation print by just hitting the print icon.

Why not set it that when a user prints from the print dialog, whatever he set as the printer is the default printer set for the document to next print from. Or we have a button or checkbox in the print dialog to save these print settings into the document. When hitting the print icon, which since 4.4 opens the dialog and isnt directly printing to the default printer, a user always has access to select the printer he wants to print from, as not everyone will have access to the printer that was set in the document's printer settings.

There is no explicit mention that the settings being set in File > Printer Settings (even more confusing as the dialog which pops up is titled 'Printer Setup') is what is being saved into the document.

> The discussion mentions two options w.r.t. the plan to (re)move that menu:
> 
> 1. make it possible to do the same settings in dialog Page style.

As a document can have multiple page styles, i dont think that it would be good to put printing options in to that dialog.

> 2. make an option in File > Print to do settings without printing (shrug ..)

If this is an important feature to have, which IMHO it isnt due to its limited scope/usage as well as the OOo stats, then it should be part of the print dialog.
Comment 5 Cor Nouws 2015-09-15 06:36:12 UTC
Hi Jay,

(In reply to Yousuf (Jay) Philips from comment #4)

> So you want to set the printer you want to print to, but dont actually want
> to print the document. Can you elaborate on this?

This is done to prepare documents/templates. In line with preparing paper tray and what ever more people may want to set properly from the start.

> As a document can have multiple page styles, i dont think that it would be
> good to put printing options in to that dialog.

There is an detailed discussion ongoing on the design-list. You may want to join there?
Comment 6 Heiko Tietze 2015-09-15 07:18:15 UTC
Aside from the fact that 'print' doesn't print directly anymore: The default printer is configured at the system settings. Overriding those defaults leads to inconsistencies and bad usability. And the use case is questionable: Why should Adrian configure printer A as a system default and printer B as LibO default?
Another argument: Even when there are aspects that makes it useful in some situations most of our users will never go to this dialog. We have too many features that are annoying and confusing to 99.9% of our users.
Comment 7 Cor Nouws 2015-09-15 08:24:31 UTC
Hi Heiko,

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #6)

> Why should Adrian configure printer A as a system default and
> printer B as LibO default?

It is a setting per document.

> Another argument: Even when there are aspects that makes it useful in some
> situations most of our users will never go to this dialog. We have too many
> features that are annoying and confusing to 99.9% of our users.

Of course it is not used that often.
The same with (other features) managing templates and styles that got lost in the make over of the template dialog. And that now ask for complicated counter intuitive work arounds.
So I don't argue (on the list) that this menu items must stay. But when removing, it looks reasonable to have a good functional solution for that use case.
See the list discussion please.
Comment 8 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2015-09-20 01:09:02 UTC
Lets move to NEW to not disturb the QA team.
Comment 9 Robinson Tryon (qubit) 2016-08-25 05:39:31 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 10 Heiko Tietze 2017-12-18 10:27:05 UTC
Can we agree on moving the controls from this dialog to Tools > Options > (sw|sc|sd) > Print?
Comment 11 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-12-21 14:29:25 UTC
Stuart, Regina, Sophie: do you have any thoughts on this issue?
Comment 12 sophie 2017-12-21 16:36:25 UTC
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #11)
> Stuart, Regina, Sophie: do you have any thoughts on this issue?

As it's a per document setting, it should not be moved to a general module setting. Adrian has decided to print only left pages of this document and only for this document. Each time he will work on this document and print it, he won't have to bother about the setting, it's saved with the document. 
The only place where options of this dialog could be moved is in File > Print dialog. Sophie
Comment 13 V Stuart Foote 2017-12-21 22:12:49 UTC
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #11)
> Stuart, Regina, Sophie: do you have any thoughts on this issue?

Yes it can be restructured and eliminated... steps as Cor's notes here [1]:

1. Move File > Printer set up to Format Page, tab Page
  It would be good make clear that usually it makes sense to have one
  printer for all page styles in the document.
  So maybe a tick "[ ] For all pages in this document" would be good?
  (Inheritance as JF suggests is nice too, but possibly less easy..)

2. Move options "use only paper size from printer settings"
  and "use only paper orientation from printer settings"
  from the tab Options to Printer properties dialog, where
  page size and orientation are set.

3. Check from all options from Tools > Options > (Module) Print
  if it is useful to have them at module level or rather
  at document level (in File > Print > Options)
  (Bubli and me had a quick look and there were at least some odd
  settings.) 


=-ref-=
[1] Cor's Sep 27, 2015; 2:33am post, http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Improving-printing-UX-tt4153879.html