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Bug 65482 - Main English install on OSX should include also localized READMEs in the README folder
Summary: Main English install on OSX should include also localized READMEs in the READ...
Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Installation (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
4.1.0.0.beta1
Hardware: Other Mac OS X (All)
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
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Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2013-06-06 20:55 UTC by Martin Srebotnjak
Modified: 2013-07-03 15:41 UTC (History)
0 users

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Description Martin Srebotnjak 2013-06-06 20:55:33 UTC
Currently on OSX installation is divided in the English install pack with included online help in en-US, and the language pack each with its own online help.
The English installation pack includes folders LICENSEs and READMEs. In the READMEs folder there is only README_en-US, but I guess all other language readmes should be included.
Comment 1 Thomas Hackert 2013-06-20 14:38:54 UTC
Hello miles, *,
do you really want us to pack the Readmes in every possible language inside the main install set? Or do I understand you wrong? If I install LO Version: 4.1.0.1
Build ID: 1b3956717a60d6ac35b133d7b0a0f5eb55e9155 under Debian Testing AMD64 with Germnanophone lang- as well as helppack, I have a README_de for my language there ... ;)
Sorry for the inconvenience
Thomas.
Comment 2 Martin Srebotnjak 2013-06-20 19:09:49 UTC
Yes, I do think that OSX install file should contain readmes in all supported languages (languages that LO has UI localized in). I want US to do it.

This would not be a lot of space on the disk. The main readme can be in the main folder and all the localized readmes could be in the localized readmes subfolder.
I do not see why that is a problem.
Comment 3 Thomas Hackert 2013-06-23 13:13:22 UTC
Hello Miles, *,
do you really mean /all/ languages, where the UI is available in, or only languages spoken in the US should be in the US installer? If you really mean all languages, I think it is not that useful, as the langpacks will install them ...

Sorry for the inconvenience
Thomas.
Comment 4 Martin Srebotnjak 2013-06-23 13:21:28 UTC
Well, Thomas, let me reiterate: ALL LANGUAGES.

Why? Because on OS X every language user must first install the English version, then a language pack with localized UI and help must be installed.

How does a Chinese or Arabic user know what are requirements or special release notes about the new software? Since the actions to install are simple on a Mac (one just drops the icon in the Applications folder and install starts and finishes) there is no way (if it is not a native speaker) to know if there are things to beware or not do ...

Unless release notes are meant only for English speaking users, or just for Americans.
Comment 5 Thomas Hackert 2013-06-26 06:20:21 UTC
Hello Miles, *,
(In reply to comment #4)
> Well, Thomas, let me reiterate: ALL LANGUAGES.
> 
> Why? Because on OS X every language user must first install the English
> version, then a language pack with localized UI and help must be installed.

that is the same on GNU/Linux ... ;)

> How does a Chinese or Arabic user know what are requirements or special
> release notes about the new software?

By reading the requirements on http://www.libreoffice.org/download/release-notes/ before downloading LO ;?

> Since the actions to install are
> simple on a Mac (one just drops the icon in the Applications folder and
> install starts and finishes) there is no way (if it is not a native speaker)
> to know if there are things to beware or not do ...

OK. But then it would be more useful to integrate a function, which checks the OS language and maybe a dialog like "Your $OS is using $language. Would you like to see the requirements in $language, before you install LO?" And maybe then either open the adequate wiki/TDF homepage and/or some other way to show it ... ;) But that would be a completely different feature request ... ;)

> Unless release notes are meant only for English speaking users, or just for
> Americans.

No, I don't think so. But I am not sure, if they are entirely translated at all available languages ... :(

From my POV it would bloat the download size of LO, where most win users are always complaining about ... :(

I mean, it is a feature request ... ;) It is FLOSS as well. If you want this feature, you can try to find a developer to implement it or find people, who would vote for it by adding themselves to CC of this bug ... ;)
Sorry for the inconvenience
Thomas.
Comment 6 Martin Srebotnjak 2013-06-26 06:38:13 UTC
Hello Miles, *,

>> How does a Chinese or Arabic user know what are requirements or special
>> release notes about the new software?

>By reading the requirements on http://www.libreoffice.org/download/release-notes/ before downloading LO ;?

So you are saying LibreOffice does not need release notes because all users, including English-speaking ones can read that on the web? Will you propose to delete them from installation package? Obviously noone needs it?

>> Since the actions to install are
>> simple on a Mac (one just drops the icon in the Applications folder and
>> install starts and finishes) there is no way (if it is not a native speaker)
>> to know if there are things to beware or not do ...

>OK. But then it would be more useful to integrate a function, which checks the OS language and maybe a dialog like "Your $OS is using $language. Would you like to see the requirements in $language, before you install LO?" And maybe then either open the adequate wiki/TDF homepage and/or some other way to show it ... ;) But that would be a completely different feature request ... ;)

No, I do not propose that. LibreOffice is localized in more languages than OS X (i.e. there is no Slovenian interface for OSX, but LO is localized fully into Slovenian). Just think of all the African languages...

>> Unless release notes are meant only for English speaking users, or just for
>> Americans.

>No, I don't think so. But I am not sure, if they are entirely translated at all available languages ... :(

Readme is a part of localization files of UI. All languages that are above 90% in their localization have this file localized. One can check it in Pootle if you have doubts about my claims...

>From my POV it would bloat the download size of LO, where most win users are always complaining about ... :(

I do not see how 100 files of pure txt of 15kb would bloat the download size. 1,5Mb for user friendlier interface is not over the top. But it would be possible to add interface to link to localized release notes on a website if this size is such a biggie.

>I mean, it is a feature request ... ;) It is FLOSS as well. If you want this feature, you can try to find a developer to implement it or find people, who would vote for it by adding themselves to CC of this bug ... ;)

I know how FLOSS works, I have been there quite long. I am not saying this is a priority for LO. I just entered it into the system so it does not get forgotten. But I do find it funny how LO developers think that only developing new features and squashing bugs is important. They are forgetting that success of LO depends of the localization quality and frendliness. And developing by being unfriendly to other languages and localizers will not help LO in the long run.
Comment 7 retired 2013-07-03 14:44:59 UTC
Talking about friendliness: I tend to disagree here. Isn't it friendly if the installation is as painless as possible?

If users first have to read several pages of a readme file maybe something with that installation process is very wrong. If LO does not support an old system, then the installer shouldn't allow to be executed. If it works then make the install as uncluttered and painless as possible. I think including all read-me's in all language doesn't serve any good.

I installed LO maybe a hundred (?) times now and didn't bother to read any read-me a single time.

If the system with the language packs ever changes and only one installer is delivered, then the according readme of the right language should of course be included. So when talking about usability I think that is what we should be discussing.
Comment 8 Martin Srebotnjak 2013-07-03 14:54:09 UTC
Yeah, let's delete all translations, let's remove all langpacks, let's make it as painless as possible. Let's stop localizing LibreOffice.
Comment 9 Martin Srebotnjak 2013-07-03 14:55:24 UTC
And you forgot, you speak English. How would it be if you didn't speak and understand English, those hundred times? Hard to think about it, right.
Comment 10 retired 2013-07-03 15:41:58 UTC
miles, I'm not sure where you are going with those arguments.

German is my native language. But yes, I speak english. I wouldn't have read the read-me files if they were provided in german neither. And in my case I could have visited http://de.libreoffice.org/download/. Again I don't see how this has anything to-do with this bug.

Also you must have misread my comment. I never suggested to stop localizing anything. Localize the wiki, localize the homepage, offer localization packages. All that is great. But I guess we do agree that offering all language packs in the first download isn't a good idea as well. Let's not mix it all up.