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Bug 100400 - No template available according to use of MS Word 2016 for Academic Works
Summary: No template available according to use of MS Word 2016 for Academic Works
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
Inherited From OOo
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: Templates
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2016-06-15 11:36 UTC by Marco A.G.Pinto
Modified: 2020-03-09 13:27 UTC (History)
8 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
MS Word 2016 margins (.doc) (22.50 KB, application/msword)
2016-06-15 12:20 UTC, Marco A.G.Pinto
Details
MS Word 2016 margins (.docx) (14.15 KB, application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document)
2016-06-15 12:21 UTC, Marco A.G.Pinto
Details
Template for MS Word 2016 Academic Works (11.18 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text-template)
2016-06-15 13:21 UTC, Marco A.G.Pinto
Details
Template ready (22.15 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text-template)
2016-06-20 15:44 UTC, Marco A.G.Pinto
Details
Template ready - V1.1 - Grammar improvements (21.58 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text-template)
2016-06-22 13:01 UTC, Marco A.G.Pinto
Details
Writer template (51.20 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2016-06-22 13:45 UTC, Heiko Tietze
Details
V1.2 - 2016-10-25 (20.26 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text-template)
2016-10-25 05:16 UTC, Marco A.G.Pinto
Details

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Description Marco A.G.Pinto 2016-06-15 11:36:48 UTC
IRC LOG:

[12:27] <marcoagpinto> guys?! Can I suggest a setting in the ML about "M$ Word page size"?
[12:27] <marcoagpinto> the margins, header and footer don't match the ones used by my M$ Word
[12:29] <buovjaga> marcoagpinto: but why not use Bugzilla?
[12:29] <buovjaga> except I think that might be because of the different internal units..
[12:30] <marcoagpinto> buovjag: there are custom settings in LO for all that
[12:30] <marcoagpinto> one just needs to create a template whatever
[12:30] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:30] <marcoagpinto> "M$ Word 2016"


In simple words, when I add headers and footers, they appear too close to the main text which looks bad for academic works and such.

Academic works follow certain rules and M$ Word has them by default.

Thanks!
Comment 1 Marco A.G.Pinto 2016-06-15 12:20:41 UTC
Created attachment 125672 [details]
MS Word 2016 margins (.doc)

MS Word 2016 margins (.doc)
Comment 2 Marco A.G.Pinto 2016-06-15 12:21:46 UTC
Created attachment 125673 [details]
MS Word 2016 margins (.docx)

The .doc is Word 2003 format and the .docx is Word 2016 format.
Comment 3 Marco A.G.Pinto 2016-06-15 12:27:40 UTC
The idea would probably be to add a new "margin type" to the list on the bottom right panel saying "MS Word".
Comment 4 Marco A.G.Pinto 2016-06-15 12:35:29 UTC
[13:28] <buovjaga> marcoagpinto: do you really propose that as a setting in margins, or a template to be shipped with LibO?
[13:30] <marcoagpinto> yes
[13:30] <marcoagpinto> :)
[13:30] <marcoagpinto> this would make it easier for people to move to LO
[13:30] <marcoagpinto> such as students
[13:30] <buovjaga> well I think that is going too far and would prefer a template
[13:30] <marcoagpinto> sure
[13:31] <marcoagpinto> >:)
[13:31] <marcoagpinto> provided people can access it easily
[13:31] <marcoagpinto> :)
Comment 5 Cor Nouws 2016-06-15 12:45:22 UTC
Hi Marco,

Thanks for explaining the topic.

There is no general template fitting all needs.
For specific needs, adjust your file or create a template if you need the settings more often.
If you think a special template is useful, create it and either suggest it for inclusion in the installation, or make it available via http://templates.libreoffice.org/template-center :)

So I close this as .. let's say NotABug.
Regards,
Cor
Comment 6 Cor Nouws 2016-06-15 12:45:49 UTC
better WONT'FIX'
Comment 7 Cor Nouws 2016-06-15 12:46:50 UTC
suggestion: try to understand what bouvjaga says ;)
Comment 8 Marco A.G.Pinto 2016-06-15 13:21:10 UTC
Created attachment 125675 [details]
Template for MS Word 2016 Academic Works

@Cor Nouws:
Is this the correct procedure?

I have created the template and uploaded it here in Bugzilla.

Can it be shipped with LO?

Thanks!
Comment 9 Cor Nouws 2016-06-15 18:27:22 UTC
(In reply to Marco A.G.Pinto from comment #8)

> @Cor Nouws:
> Is this the correct procedure?

I guess not precisely, but .. ;)
 
> I have created the template and uploaded it here in Bugzilla.
> 
> Can it be shipped with LO?

Good and clear start IMO.

Would it be an idea maybe to add a simple dummy chapter, with correct styling/numbering?
And maybe page numbering?
Or are those not exactly defined?

Can you maybe use placeholders (Ctrl+F2 > Function for Header/Footer here! ?

Would it be an idea to add some (custom) properties (File > Properties) and use those with fields in header/footer?

Is there a defined form for a TOC ?

Sorry, not to annoy you, but if you work on a template anyway, why not make it really marvellous :)
If needed, you may possibly add one/to screen shots in the template under a header "how to use" ?

Further, if added to LibreOffice I guess localization must be done.
Comment 10 Cor Nouws 2016-06-15 18:29:30 UTC
Thanks a lot so far, of course!

@kendy: IIRC you've been involved by earlier inclusion of templates.
What route should we go (see previous comment too, please.)
Comment 11 Jan Holesovsky 2016-06-15 19:29:41 UTC
Jay: You know about templates much more than me :-) - can you have a look / integrate this?
Comment 12 Marco A.G.Pinto 2016-06-15 22:12:21 UTC
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #9)

Cor Nouws,

Next week I will search for the Portuguese Military Academy rules for scientific publications (my Masters was taken there). I will make a summary of it.

Tomorrow I have a meeting with my PhD supervisor so I won't have time for anything.

On Friday it is the eve of my weekend supermarket job and I will be stressed.

In simple words: I will try to start doing it next Monday and have it finished on Tuesday after revising it.

As a note: the Military Academy guys only gave the rules in the thesis part, which means the students spent almost two years without knowing them, which affected the classifications.

:)

Kind regards from your friend,


> (In reply to Marco A.G.Pinto from comment #8)
> 
> > @Cor Nouws:
> > Is this the correct procedure?
> 
> I guess not precisely, but .. ;)
>  
> > I have created the template and uploaded it here in Bugzilla.
> > 
> > Can it be shipped with LO?
> 
> Good and clear start IMO.
> 
> Would it be an idea maybe to add a simple dummy chapter, with correct
> styling/numbering?
> And maybe page numbering?
> Or are those not exactly defined?
> 
> Can you maybe use placeholders (Ctrl+F2 > Function for Header/Footer here! ?
> 
> Would it be an idea to add some (custom) properties (File > Properties) and
> use those with fields in header/footer?
> 
> Is there a defined form for a TOC ?
> 
> Sorry, not to annoy you, but if you work on a template anyway, why not make
> it really marvellous :)
> If needed, you may possibly add one/to screen shots in the template under a
> header "how to use" ?
> 
> Further, if added to LibreOffice I guess localization must be done.
Comment 13 Cor Nouws 2016-06-16 09:47:22 UTC
(In reply to Marco A.G.Pinto from comment #12)

Hey friend :) !

> In simple words: I will try to start doing it next Monday and have it
> finished on Tuesday after revising it.

No problem I think.
As written: now we are at it: better make a little more effort for a much better result. We might even consider to ask on marketing/10n/users list for more input in this type of template? Maybe in the end we have two or three or .. generic standards?

Ciao,
Cor
Comment 14 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2016-06-16 16:43:27 UTC
@Marco: There wouldnt be a point in bundling the template files you submitted so far as all they have in them is margin sizes and enabled headers and footers, which most users can create themselves. But it could be bundled if the template is expanded to show an example use of the template. Please see the link below for examples of templates that were submitted to us.

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Templates_for_LibreOffice_4.4
Comment 15 Marco A.G.Pinto 2016-06-20 15:44:34 UTC
Created attachment 125780 [details]
Template ready
Comment 16 Marco A.G.Pinto 2016-06-20 15:47:02 UTC
Hello!

I am kind of stressed... could someone check if the template is ready to be used by students or if it still needs additional improvements?

Thanks!

Kind regards,
Comment 17 Marco A.G.Pinto 2016-06-22 13:01:20 UTC
Created attachment 125830 [details]
Template ready - V1.1 - Grammar improvements

Hello!

I have improved the grammar and all seems fine now.
Comment 18 Cor Nouws 2016-06-22 13:24:32 UTC
(In reply to Marco A.G.Pinto from comment #17)
> Created attachment 125830 [details]
> Template ready - V1.1 - Grammar improvements
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I have improved the grammar and all seems fine now.

Thanks Marco. Looks solid and with extensive explanation ;)
Still I have some suggestions. Send those by separate mail for discussion fist.
Comment 19 Heiko Tietze 2016-06-22 13:45:27 UTC
Created attachment 125832 [details]
Writer template

I would not want to work with this template. First of all there are way too many styles in the template. People using more than four levels for headings also frightens little children (you can _hide_ unused styles). 

Header is in Times New Roman/12, title in Liberation Sans/28, and text body in Calibri/11. Heading 1 has Liberation Sans/14 , heading 2 is in Liberation Sans/16.1 and bold. Etcetera.

My expectation is that the following styles are defined (and exemplary shown):
* title, subtitle, 
* heading 1-3 (h1 with page break), 
* text (I prefer equal spacing before and after; single line spacing for documents that have to be ), 
* list with bullets, numbered list (lists with no spacing except the first and last item, which needs an extra style), 
* indexes, 
* figure caption, table caption, 
* citation, and
* header, footer.

The template could be improved with fields like page number, author, title. Official templates like the APA style have several other restrictions. Each journal its own, of course. 

I'm attaching an old template that is not necessarily better than yours (nor  does it focus on thesis or academic paper).

Keep on with the work, we definitely need good examples!
Comment 20 Marco A.G.Pinto 2016-10-25 05:16:20 UTC
Created attachment 128230 [details]
V1.2 - 2016-10-25

Clicked on the button that clears the formatting.
Comment 21 Marco A.G.Pinto 2016-10-25 05:17:52 UTC
Guys,

I was looking at the desktop files and noticed the template I started working on months ago.

I now clicked on the button that clears the direct formatting.

Is it now okay?
Comment 22 Cor Nouws 2016-11-01 16:19:48 UTC
Hi Marco,

(In reply to Marco A.G.Pinto from comment #21)
> I now clicked on the button that clears the direct formatting.

That action works on selected text.. So try again and make the result to you like :)
Comment 23 Xisco Faulí 2020-03-09 13:27:58 UTC
Please add keyword 'needsUXEval' and CC 'libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org' if input from UX is needed.