Hi. The drop caps effect makes the initial capital letter occupy more than one line DOWN. I would like to suggest that it could also occupy more than one line UP. You see this in many books, for example. It could also be done the same way you define the letter size, font, style, etc., but WITHOUT making bigger the spacing between it and the line below, so the spacing between lines could always be the same.
Sounds ok -> NEW
I guess it could be even called LIFT caps instead of DROP caps...or even better: FORMAT caps or EDIT caps...
*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 70180 ***
@Heiko, @Stuart, @Cor, @Regina: Is this something that should be implemented?
Yes, Lift caps as an option additional to Drop caps sounds reasonable to me.
Writer only feature
First, "Lift caps" is a nonsensical term. Second, trying to implement this separately from bug 70180 is ridiculously complex UX-wise, because a baseline-aligned, single-line drop cap should best be handled with the existing dialog and options. I marked this as a duplicate for a reason. *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 70180 ***
Both bugs are not the same. Actually, what I am referring to is not even a bug, but a suggestion for an enhancement. There's a function called "Drop Caps" which allows a big capital letter to occupy more than one line DOWN. Why can't there be a function which allows the same thing, but occupying some lines UP instead of down? It doesn't even have to be called "Lift Caps", it can be called some other thing...the menu for "Drop Caps" could be called some other thing, and in it, you could select if you wanted the capital letter to occupy space DOWN or UP...that would be even more optional for the user, a more complete function.
Ok, I found a term that is not nonsensical: raised initial https://www.fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-4/fine-typography/raised-and-dropped-initials
Or "raised caps".
Adolpho is correct, implementing a "Raised" initial is the effect requested in bug 70180 Adjusting the summary there. *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 70180 ***
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #11) > Adolpho is correct, implementing a "Raised" initial is the effect requested > in bug 70180 Bug 70180 is about having drop caps on a single line and nothing about having the effect go upwards rather than downwards.
Jay,* -- Sorry, but that is exactly what both issues require. That the "drop caps" handle both directions, i.e. Dropped initial, as implemented now, and Raised initial as requested. Adding the raised would touch the same parts of the edit engine--probably even the same control. It is a duplicate...
Yes, it's true. If it's on one line, it stops being a drop cap (see the Word screenshot taken by Heiko in 70180). I will adjust the summary of the older report. *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 70180 ***
I asked Jay in chat, if he thought this request meant that the initial would punch into the paragraph above and he said yes. Yet, I was unable to find any actual example of such an initial style. Visualizing it in my minds eye it feels it would look very confusing. This is not how I imagined it when I set this to NEW in 2016. Nothing like that sort of thing is mentioned in https://drafts.csswg.org/css-inline/#initial-letter-styling or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial Please, if you have some esoteric initial letter literature, refer to it with pictures. Otherwise this has to stay closed.
What I refer to as raised caps is, as a visual example, like a drop caps with two lines size, but in which the textline on the side of the big capital letter only appears on the second line. You may think that you can do that by just increasing the letter's size, but doing that also increases the spacing between the first and the second lines, and that's the effect to avoid. I'm pretty sure I have a book in which I saw this, if I find it I scan what I'm referring to.
(In reply to jlbraga from comment #16) > What I refer to as raised caps is, as a visual example, like a drop caps > with two lines size, but in which the textline on the side of the big > capital letter only appears on the second line. Ah, so you mean like Sunken Caps? https://drafts.csswg.org/css-inline/images/SunkenCapA.png
No, what you show there is like a 3-line drop caps with the first line in blank. I mean something like drop caps but, whatever the size of it, the normal text size on its side starts on the last line of the drops caps size, and all the upper lines are in blank.
(In reply to jlbraga from comment #18) > No, what you show there is like a 3-line drop caps with the first line in > blank. I mean something like drop caps but, whatever the size of it, the > normal text size on its side starts on the last line of the drops caps size, > and all the upper lines are in blank. Well, now you're talking about raised caps/initials again, just like you agreed in comment 10. This is what bug 70180 is about!
The discussion here (starting from comment 12) focuses around whether the raised caps (as depicted at https://drafts.csswg.org/css-inline/images/RaisedCap.png, which is clearly what OP wants) may indent into a previous paragraph above (like drop caps indent into *this* paragraph, see https://drafts.csswg.org/css-inline/images/Dropcap-E-acute-3line.png). I suppose that this is not a requirement OP has meant, and others (Buovjaga, Adolfo Jayme - except for Jay) seem to not consider this option (indenting into paragraph above). I suppose that however tall the raised cap could be, its height should only add to space between previous and this paragraph. And in this interpretation, this is truly duplicate of bug 70180. The question here is: is there someone who believes that the indenting into paragraph above is a required feature, and if it is, please provide references to such usage, as asked in comment 15.
I am the OP of bug 70180. While I find sensible to merge the feature request in this bug with the feature request in bug 70180 per comment 7, and therefore keep this bug closed and flesh out a generic start of paragraph highlight in bug 70180, I strongly object to comment 15: > Please, if you have some esoteric initial letter literature, refer to it with > pictures. Otherwise this has to stay closed. Limiting the scope to existing initial letter literature is an unnecessary artificial limit to human creativity. The feature requested by the OP is perfectly legit. For a more detailed analysis and a suggested solution, see bug 70180.