Bug 104142 - Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor
Summary: Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cu...
Status: RESOLVED WORKSFORME
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Impress (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
5.2.2.2 release
Hardware: All Linux (All)
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: Object-Selection-Alignment
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Reported: 2016-11-24 11:25 UTC by s.p.helma
Modified: 2023-11-04 19:25 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

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Description s.p.helma 2016-11-24 11:25:27 UTC 
Description:
It is very hard to select a line in front of an image. The cursor changes to the "grab hand" as soon as it moves over the picture. It is not really clear where the "active point" of this cursor is and the cursor does not change when it moves over a line.

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Insert an image into Impress.
2. Draw a line in front of the image.
3. Click outside the image to deselect everything.
4. Try to select the line.

Actual Results:  
The cursor is the "grab hand" when over the image. There is no clear indication that the cursor is above the line. It is also not clear where the "active point" of the "grab hand" cursor is.

Expected Results:
Either change the cursor to signal that it is over the line.
Or highlight the object under the cursor.
Or give an indication of the "active point" of the "grab hand" cursor.


Reproducible: Always

User Profile Reset: No

Additional Info:


User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/50.0
Comment 1 Buovjaga 2016-11-29 12:49:55 UTC 
There was a complaint about this before, but it was not kept open. I have a method to make selection precise in a comment: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95841#c4

As this keeps coming up, let's ask UX. Does the hit area of lines need to be increased? Or any other improvements you can think of?

One thing that popped to my mind is pre-selection highlighting: the line would light up in a different color/shade, when the mouse is over the hit area.
Comment 2 s.p.helma 2016-11-30 00:04:05 UTC 
Thank you for the link to the previous report. I missed that one!

The workaround is really a bit clumsy. And if you forgot to name the element it, you run into very same problem.

I can think of two possible improvements:

1. Make the pick cursor the arrow and not the grab hand. Change the cursor to the grab hand only if the main mouse button is clicked to show that the object can be moved now.

2. Highlight the object under the cursor.

I believe that option 2 is the better one. It also follows current practice in CAD programs. Maybe it's also possible to combine 1 and 2?
Comment 3 Heiko Tietze 2016-11-30 08:20:40 UTC 
I wouldn't increase the hotspot area, at least not in general. Perhaps it could be adjusted according the zoom factor, if it isn't yet. Issues with object selection are known and the proposed solution is to have a simple alternative with the navigator: https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/07/31/how-the-navigator-may-support-object-handling-in-libreoffice-draw/
Comment 4 Buovjaga 2016-11-30 09:27:06 UTC 
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3)
> I wouldn't increase the hotspot area, at least not in general. Perhaps it
> could be adjusted according the zoom factor, if it isn't yet. Issues with
> object selection are known and the proposed solution is to have a simple
> alternative with the navigator:
> https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/07/31/how-the-navigator-may-
> support-object-handling-in-libreoffice-draw/

So what is your view on pre-selection highlighting that me and the original reporter proposed? I'm sure there are some extremely complex cases, where the navigator is invaluable, but I guess most of the time a hands-on visual hint would be the best.
Comment 5 Heiko Tietze 2016-11-30 09:38:40 UTC 
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #4)
> So what is your view on pre-selection highlighting that me and the original
> reporter proposed? I'm sure there are some extremely complex cases, where
> the navigator is invaluable, but I guess most of the time a hands-on visual
> hint would be the best.

You mean the line color turns into red or a fancy glow effect appears around it? And what happens in case of a red line or when the object is shining by default? Hard to imagine that we find a general solution for all objects and all drawings that is better than turning the cursor from pointer into the grab hand.
Comment 6 Buovjaga 2016-11-30 09:51:32 UTC 
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #5)
> You mean the line color turns into red or a fancy glow effect appears around
> it? And what happens in case of a red line or when the object is shining by
> default? Hard to imagine that we find a general solution for all objects and
> all drawings that is better than turning the cursor from pointer into the
> grab hand.

Everything is possible. The shading or glow color can be made relative. This is ancient technology to all 3D artists.
Comment 7 Heiko Tietze 2018-10-28 12:41:46 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 8 Buovjaga 2018-10-28 14:09:05 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 9 Buovjaga 2018-10-28 18:23:19 UTC 
A video example of what preselection highlighting in 3D software looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmfyRi7yx1w (Blender)
Comment 10 Heiko Tietze 2018-10-31 10:11:13 UTC 
Thanks for sharing the video. But I still think it's not a needed feature as a) typically objects are not stacked like on 3D scenes or lines over images, b) most users have not so many objects on the canvas (see also https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/04/01/the-many-faced-god-part-2-how-libreoffice-draw-is-expected-to-evolve/) and c) we provide selection per Navigator (and should invest effort there). 

But in case someone wants to implement it, I could imagine a temporary frame around the object similar to when it is selected, maybe in a slightly different color. Same happens for selections in lists, trees etc. eg. the Gallery.
Comment 11 s.p.helma 2018-10-31 12:23:21 UTC 
I still believe, that there should be a visible clue to show the element under the cursor. Nearly every program dealing with (vector) graphics does it. Personally, I don't have any preference how the element-to-be-selected is highlighted.

The alternative is to have a cursor where it's clear, where the "active" spot is. IMHO the hand cursor used is notoriously bad in this regard.
Comment 12 QA Administrators 2019-11-01 03:37:18 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 13 s.p.helma 2019-11-01 18:09:27 UTC 
I can confirm, that this bug is still present on:

Version: 6.3.2.2
Build ID: 1:6.3.2-0ubuntu0.18.04.1~lo1
Comment 14 QA Administrators 2021-11-01 04:15:10 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 15 s.p.helma 2021-11-01 11:23:11 UTC 
I can confirm, that his bug is still present in:

Version: 7.2.2.2 / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 20(Build:2)
CPU threads: 4; OS: Linux 5.14; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3
Locale: en-GB (en_GB.UTF-8); UI: en-GB
Ubuntu package version: 1:7.2.2~rc2-0ubuntu0.20.04.1~lo1
Calc: threaded
Comment 16 QA Administrators 2023-11-02 03:15:44 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 17 s.p.helma 2023-11-04 19:13:55 UTC 
In my currently installed version, the cursor does not switch to the ‘grab hand’ when it moves over a line - it stays the default arrow cursor. With this cursor it is easy (easier) to pick the line. So this issue can be considered resolved.

Version: 7.6.2.1 (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community
Environment: CPU threads: 4; OS: Linux 6.5
User Interface: UI render: default; VLC: gtk3
Locale: en-GB (en_GB.UTF-8); UI: en-GB
Misc: Ubuntu package version: 4:7.6.2_rc1-0ubuntu0.22.04.1~lo1

OS: Linux Mint 21.2