> For example, the third option (Extensions) makes more changes besides extensions stuff, for example UI changes.

Can you explain which changes are made? If anything except extensions is changed here, that is clearly a bug.

Apart from that, if you have suggestions to improve the wording, please do suggest exact phrases :)

(In reply to Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) from comment #1)
> > For example, the third option (Extensions) makes more changes besides extensions stuff, for example UI changes.
> 
> Can you explain which changes are made? If anything except extensions is
> changed here, that is clearly a bug.
> 
> Apart from that, if you have suggestions to improve the wording, please do
> suggest exact phrases :)

The UI changes: the icons at the top bar that I chose to hide appear again. I'm a layman, so I don't know what happens behind the curtains, but I can see that the UI changes.

Those UI changes also happen when I choose the first option. So, when I choose the third option the UI changes because the third option is cumulative with the first two? If so, than it's no clear in the description. The description says that the options get more radical from top down, but it's not clear if they are applied in a cumulative way.

Samuel, what's your opinion on this? WFM or investigate further?

(In reply to Kaue from comment #2)
> The UI changes: the icons at the top bar that I chose to hide appear again.
> I'm a layman, so I don't know what happens behind the curtains, but I can
> see that the UI changes.

I don't understand this. How does the UI change?

 
> Those UI changes also happen when I choose the first option. So, when I
> choose the third option the UI changes because the third option is
> cumulative with the first two? If so, than it's no clear in the description.
> The description says that the options get more radical from top down, but
> it's not clear if they are applied in a cumulative way.

Only those options which are selected by the user will be applied. I think this is pretty obvious? If not, please specify what exactly can be improved.

(In reply to Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) from comment #4)

> I don't understand this. How does the UI change?

In the fourth option of safe mode, there is a checkbox to "reset settings and user interface modifications". When someone reads that, he presumes that only by selecting this checkbox the UI will be reset. But, when I choose, for example, the first or second option, my UI is reset too. When I say that the UI changes, I'm talking about the icons that I choose to hide on the toolbar. The interface colors also reset. 
That said, the question is: choosing any option of Safe Mode resets the UI? If so, then the checkbox "reset settings and user interface modifications" is misleading.


> Only those options which are selected by the user will be applied. I think
> this is pretty obvious? If not, please specify what exactly can be improved.

What I suggest is making clear if the lower options include the higher options and all their checkboxes (cumulative); or if they are simply more radical, but not cumulative with the higher ones. 

In another words, what is clear in the description is that:
Extensions > Configure > Restore from backup
But is it correct to say:
Extensions = Extensions + Configure + Restore from backup

(In reply to Kaue from comment #5)
> (In reply to Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) from comment #4)
> 
> > I don't understand this. How does the UI change?
> 
> In the fourth option of safe mode, there is a checkbox to "reset settings
> and user interface modifications". When someone reads that, he presumes that
> only by selecting this checkbox the UI will be reset. But, when I choose,
> for example, the first or second option, my UI is reset too. When I say that
> the UI changes, I'm talking about the icons that I choose to hide on the
> toolbar. The interface colors also reset. 
> That said, the question is: choosing any option of Safe Mode resets the UI?
> If so, then the checkbox "reset settings and user interface modifications"
> is misleading.

Ok, I understand the problem. The first option might be the most radical as it can reset everything to factory settings (if things only changed recently and there is only one backup available).

I would suggest to remove the wording that "the options get more radical from top down" [1] which is simply not true and it's hard to order them so that this is true in all cases.

Would that be an improvement?

[1] https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/71886/

> Ok, I understand the problem. The first option might be the most radical as
> it can reset everything to factory settings (if things only changed recently
> and there is only one backup available).

You're mentioning a very specific situation, but I think the problem is more general. I changed my UI months ago (so, it's not a recent change) and this problem happens: I choose the second option (Configure); the UI resets; I get confused, because I thought it would happen only if I chose the checkbox "reset settings and user interface modifications". 

 
> I would suggest to remove the wording that "the options get more radical
> from top down" [1] which is simply not true and it's hard to order them so
> that this is true in all cases.
> 
> Would that be an improvement?

I think the great improvement would be to make clear what happens when each option is chosen. Right now, when I choose the option Extensions, the description says that only things related to extensions will be changed, but that's incorrect, as other things changes (the UI, for example).

Also, the checkbox "reset settings and user interface modifications" is confusing, for the reasons I stated above.

Also, it's still not clear, and I still don't know, if the lower options get applied in a cumulative way with the higher options.

Look, what I'm doing here is giving the point of view of a layman trying to use the Safe Mode fix his LibreOffice by himself. If I knew more how LO works then I would give more concrete suggestions.

(In reply to Kaue from comment #7)

> I changed my UI months ago (so, it's not a recent change) and this
> problem happens: I choose the second option (Configure); the UI resets; I
> get confused, because I thought it would happen only if I chose the checkbox
> "reset settings and user interface modifications". 

This is clearly a bug then. Nothing except extensions should change at this point.
Can you please verify this with a fresh installation/user profile and give exact steps how to reproduce this?

I still think that the "more radical" wording is unhelpful, will remove it.

Samuel Mehrbrodt committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/+/21752f20e29040dfa6e2ac0e46099971765af50e%5E%21

tdf#120269 Remove misleading description from safe mode dialog

It will be available in 6.3.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

Don't find the mockup that I drafted back in the days you created the dialog, Samuel. But how about a redesign that for example has a dropdown similar to what you do with radio buttons plus listing all features that are reset with checkboxes (and allow the user to tweak things). Is that feasible, timely? (Would come up with a mockup in case of.)

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #10)
> Don't find the mockup that I drafted back in the days you created the
> dialog, Samuel. But how about a redesign that for example has a dropdown
> similar to what you do with radio buttons plus listing all features that are
> reset with checkboxes (and allow the user to tweak things). Is that
> feasible, timely? (Would come up with a mockup in case of.)

I don't understand what you mean, but feel free to create a mockup and discuss in the design meeting.
If others agree, this can be an easy hack. Shifting UI inside of a dialog around is always a good easy hack :)

Started the discussion on a redesign https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg09116.html with a mockup at https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/Zj8nsETFTyPgeEB

Comments are welcome.

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #12)
> Comments are welcome.
Wrote some ideas in a mail:
  https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg09123.html

While at this, we can maybe also cater for a better warning, one of the items discussed in https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104992#c0

*** Bug 132128 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

I'm really interested what the targeted audience for the wizard was In my opinion, way to many confusing choices. The wizard should make - more or less - the decision for people. Instead opening a whole world of possible actions.. You could redirect people to a wiki with or a forum to 'manually' fix things

Even the redesigned mock-up is still to complex. Start with you're grandmother in mind. [it's generalization, biased, etc]. However it clear what I want to say.

* Extensions ????
* Hardware acceleration? OpenGL/OpenCL ???? 
* Undo changes made to settings and user interface ????

I personally keep it simple; trashing the whole profile. But i'm not relying on lots of customization/extensions/replacement lists/macro's etc. So an easy choice..
 
I'm of course happy with restore to last known working state. However I actually trust this option (quite skeptical; yes I try it sometimes, and can work..). What makes it the last known working state. All those corrupt profile cases (major updates) with unexplained crashes are running fine. Probably started more than once before.. Is the last known working state also corrupted?

What does 'reset' extensions do? How do you reset a dictionary? Disable all user extensions? What the idea about this? People who not aware about the user installed extensions will not enable them? And if the are disabled, and turned back on (of course all at once) and everything starts crashing again.. 
Uninstall all user extensions? Quite similar to resetting the 'profile' [Yes, not the same, I know]

My idea
1. Make a backup of the user profile automatically (preventing something get lost). And make it a little smarter. Do 'overwrite' a backup automatically. X has a crash, opens safe mode, clicks on 'backup user profile', resets the extensions (he uses many). Concludes still not working, goes back to the wizard, clicks backup again (his extension collection gone.. overwritten)
[Yes, it could contain user information. The whole profile does, always? Or are we deleting the profile after every close (securely of course...)
2. I would opt for go back to factory settings (full profile) as a default. Starting point should be fresh LibreOffice profile. Are any numbers about usage of extensions (except for the default ones)? And numbers about substantial modifications to the user interface. And people who use replacement lists? 
3. Followed by a list 'except for' the keep the 'advanced' people happy.
The other way around would be of course.. go back to factory settings and having an option to restore removed elements: extensions, interface modifications from the backup profile.  
4. The 'disable OpenCL/OpenGL' is a fallback. I think? If someone enters the wizard a second time quickly after the first instance, it should give a hint to disable OpenCL/OpenGL or something like that. Or also for cases after replacing VGA? 

Or we want to be 'smart'. Asking all sorts of questions. And a action based on that:
Did you install an extension recently (yes, no, don't know)
Did you change your graphic card (yes, no, don't know)
Did you recently upgrade LibreOffice to a next major version.

Being smart is really hard. IMHO

I forgot, maybe add access the skia.log/opengl.log (more or less in relation with bug 132127)

We discussed the mockup in the design meeting. From the minutes:

  + looks good (John) but
     + is there an autobackup to "restore last known working state"
     + what is "undo modifications" compared to restore?
     + too many options, maybe remove "reset state of extensions"
   + Apply button is unclear (comment by Roman)
     + restarts with the chosen settings- clear to me (John)
   + mutual dependency between user profile and extension (comment by Cor)
     + unclear which one; if clearing entire profile, for example, means to 
       also clear the extensions we could automatically check this option
   + separate bundled/shared aka user/application extensions (comment by Samuel)
     + if needed we have to add an extra section/frame under Extension (which would
       become "User Extension") with the same options for "Application Extensions"
     + users are probably unaware of what extensions are bundled and what uninstalling
       means; better to have one option for both (John)
   + "Backup user profile" and "Restore from file" unclear (Cor)
     + we could just allow to restore from last known configuration (and consequently
       backup overwrites the one setting)
   + continue in save mode vs. apply unclear (Cor, Roman)
     + clear to me (John)
     + different naming welcome but better have tooltip explaining the function
   + some image(s) make the UI nicer

I think we can iron out the missing bits when the implementation is being done.