Bug 121883 - expose calculated Line numbering in margins/gutters to receive Navigator object navigation and bookmark target
Summary: expose calculated Line numbering in margins/gutters to receive Navigator obje...
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
6.3.0.0.alpha0+
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: Line-Numbering
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Reported: 2018-12-03 16:16 UTC by litvine
Modified: 2019-06-19 22:01 UTC (History)
5 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
Line numbders settings (46.67 KB, image/jpeg)
2018-12-12 19:11 UTC, litvine
Details
Nothing happens (9.68 KB, image/jpeg)
2018-12-12 19:12 UTC, litvine
Details
Htmlkit's gutter on the left displaying line numbers, and markers, little green pins on the left, that help to navigate either from one to the previous or the next one. (52.67 KB, image/jpeg)
2018-12-12 19:15 UTC, litvine
Details
Capture of line numbering in Writer (28.54 KB, image/png)
2018-12-12 19:34 UTC, Daveo
Details

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Description litvine 2018-12-03 16:16:41 UTC
Hi!

Creating a gutter doesn't work well. What about, please, making it much simpler and efficient?
Now within that improved gutter, what about giving the ability to create flags, markers, in order to be able to navigate an extended document logically, back and forth?
Comment 1 Xisco Faulí 2018-12-03 17:53:41 UTC
Thank you for reporting the bug.
Unfortunately without clear steps to reproduce it, we cannot track down the origin of the problem.
Please provide a clearer set of step-by-step instructions on how to reproduce the problem.
I have set the bug's status to 'NEEDINFO'. Please change it back to 'UNCONFIRMED' once the steps are provided
Comment 2 litvine 2018-12-04 17:27:49 UTC
Hi! Thank you for your concern.

I'm talking about that:
https://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Adding_Line_Numbers

Not only it's much too complicated to see a gutter including the line numbers, but even like that it doesn't work well.

I think it would be great to having an easy way to insert a gutter with line numbers in one click or one checkbox to having the line numbers.

And, again, a marker/flag system to be able to navigate from flag to flag in a long document.
Many softwares get that functionality: htmlkit, dreamweaver, the former Adobe Director, etc.

I'm sure many people would appreciate to see both these suggestions implemented :)
Comment 3 Xisco Faulí 2018-12-05 10:27:00 UTC
Let's hear UX Team's opinion on this...
Comment 4 Heiko Tietze 2018-12-10 09:52:31 UTC
Gutter, to my non-native understanding, is the white space between columns (Format > Page: Columns > Width and Spacing). I never seen any content in this space. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Column_(typography)
Margins are the space left and/or right of the page content (Format > Page: Page > Margins). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_(typography)

And when you talk about navigation do you refer to jumping easily from paragraph a to z or from line number 42 to 6541? Your use scenario that results in "doesn't work well" is quite unclear to me. When it is about line numbering (Tools > Line Numbering...) I don't get the relation to page settings. 

So could you please add something like "I want to achieve <foo> by doing <bar> with steps a..z but fail at <quz>".
Comment 5 litvine 2018-12-12 19:11:52 UTC
Created attachment 147479 [details]
Line numbders settings

With all the respect I owe you, and without wanting to be disagreeable with you at all: What is difficult in understanding that the the line numeration simply doesn't work?
You have in the first attachment the settings. In the second one you see that it doesn't display anything.
What I'm talking about is to having a simple button that would simply display a gutter on the left showing the line numbers.
I run a brand new powerful MSI PC 64bits. All my installed softwares run perfectly well without any exception. And most of'em are much more powerful that libreoffice.

Now Libreoffice is a great free tool, that many people do appreciate, and me among them, I do thank you for that! 
Now this line numeration is a pain in the neck. It could be simple and it's not.

Also having a navigation in the gutter would be a great plus, through flags, markers would be a great plus specially for large files.

Why don't you install htmlkit 292 a free lightweight web development tool. You would easily understand what I mean with "markers". You can easily uninstall it afterwards.
http://www.htmlkit.com/download/    at the bottom: free

Now, again, many softwares carry this navigation system, many 3D softwares.
Comment 6 litvine 2018-12-12 19:12:36 UTC
Created attachment 147480 [details]
Nothing happens
Comment 7 litvine 2018-12-12 19:15:08 UTC
Created attachment 147481 [details]
Htmlkit's gutter on the left displaying line numbers, and markers, little green pins on the left, that help to navigate either from one to the previous or the next one.
Comment 8 Daveo 2018-12-12 19:34:43 UTC
Created attachment 147483 [details]
Capture of line numbering in Writer

Version: 6.2.0.0.alpha1 (x64)
Build ID: ff46ad24d1d3cbcea45895520483ed1fd4ff488b
CPU threads: 8; OS: Windows 6.1; UI render: default; VCL: win;

Not sure how this would be useful in a Writer document, but it works for me.
Comment 9 litvine 2018-12-12 19:50:09 UTC
Hi!

Please believe me, if I felt the lack of it, it means that a marker system would be really useful. When you're writing about several topics to being able to navigate between paragraphs that relate within the same logic is precious.
I use the marker system in all the software which offer it. I'm a coder for about 18 years, I couldn't live without within my development tools. 
Also when you're on an animation timeline when you work with 3D it's very useful also.
Moreover, not only the former Adobe Director software was proposing it, but also we had the option to put code onto the markers, to having the animations to be driven by sections powered by the marker system.
Please, pass this conversation to the developers, I'm sure they'll understand what I mean, and the importance of that system...
Comment 10 Daveo 2018-12-12 20:56:10 UTC
You are reading way too much into my "Not sure how this would be useful in a Writer document" comment. As a coder with 30+ years of professional experience, I understand that different folks find different uses for software. Having followed the various incarnations of Writer since 2001, you are the first person I have encountered who places any importance on this function. What I read from your report is that you are asking to apply functions from totally unrelated software to a word processor.

It is is unnecessary for me to pass anything to the developers, because from your Adobe background you will know that this kind of bug reporting and RFE facility is where developers look for possible code errors and/or possible improvements.

Anyway, let's leave it there. You say it doesn't work and my screen capture says it does. So for QA purposes this is a WON'T FIX.
Comment 11 Heiko Tietze 2018-12-13 08:33:13 UTC
(In reply to litvine from comment #6)
> Created attachment 147480 [details]

Thanks for the screenshots, that makes things much clearer.

The issue is your page setting. The default margin is 2cm to the left but you have just ~0.5cm space. Or alternatively reduce the space between line numbering and text, which is 50pt (=1,76cm) in your configuration and a bit too much for the default.
Comment 12 litvine 2018-12-13 18:15:50 UTC
Hi Heiko Tietze!

Thank you for your real concern & intelligently constructive answer. One may see here that you are open minded and smart, which isn't the case regarding all the people who answer here; a situation I won't comment, even if there would be a lot to.

I'll check and try what you wrote, however, please, why not considering adding a simple by default manipulation to be able to create a gutter and getting the line numbering, with a single click.

The above suggestion would help other people too I think, UXwise. Having a clean line numbering without having to manipulate so many settings.

See, I'm not only a developer, but a UX auditor and a 3D artist, therefore, please, allow me to reiterate my suggestion regarding a navigation by flags in a gutter, permitting to navigate between related paragraphs. 
As it's not because no one thinks about an improvement that it's not a good idea if a creative person arrives with a suggestion. A writing software is a creative software like any other.

Anyways you see :) Thanks again :)
Comment 13 Heiko Tietze 2018-12-13 20:33:41 UTC
I guess you got the point that your line numbering is active but out of the page area because of inappropriate settings (too small margins ~0.5cm, too much distance between line numbers and text 50pt). So it's all about on/off.

My point was and is that this use case is not relevant for the majority. And for the minority it is two clicks away Tools > Line Numbering... = Enabled (assuming default margins of 2cm). It boils down to where expert users like you would expect this option: At the page properties dialog? I don't think so as text within a frame is not taking the line numbers. At the paragraph dialog / style? Absolutely not.
Comment 14 litvine 2018-12-13 20:56:14 UTC
Hello & thank you. Why not simply a dedicated button in one of the many toolbars?
You see... 
Within web & software UI's devs, simplicity is always the best.
Anyways, I just want to help, not to bother :)
Comment 15 V Stuart Foote 2018-12-13 21:22:36 UTC
Suspect there is room in the refactoring needed to navigate document elements to also include markers and flags being set against line numbers. But
let's fix subject as Line numbering is calculated layout decoration applied to the margin or to the gutter between columns of text. 

Its format is manipulated by the Line Number dialog which can be assigned to a toolbar button, or a keyboard short cut via the customization dialog.

Note there is a distinction to be made between Margins and Gutters. A single section/column document has no Gutter. The spacing between multiple columns of text are gutters--configured to document canvas with sections.

That said, agree adding additional decoration of hyperlink markers and flags in the margins would be a nice visual aid.  Not clear if the ODF specification has a good container for them--so my have to extend it.

Currently, the Navigator supports dropping bookmarkers, and reminders anywhere gaining text cursor focus into the document canvas.  Then movement in Navigator is modal--selecting bookmark or reminder (or other document element).

Alternatively, the dedicated Navigation Toolbar (bug 32869) provides web browser like forward & backward navigation between all the structural elements of a document including the markers--but needs additional rework (bug 115817) to bring in line with contemporary UX expectations.
Comment 16 litvine 2018-12-13 21:38:10 UTC
Thank you very much. I leave it to your "discretion" as we say here :)
Kindly please, if the devs implement any of both my points: simple way to get line numbering, and/or markers navigation, put me a little note here :)
Have a great end of the year :)