Bug 124510 - Border for Section (single column) does not toggle on/off with its control in Application Colors, while multi-column Sections do not show their color boundaries at all
Summary: Border for Section (single column) does not toggle on/off with its control in...
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
3.5.0 release
Hardware: x86-64 (AMD64) All
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: Section Options-Dialog-Colors
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2019-04-02 18:45 UTC by kitchm
Modified: 2021-05-04 08:01 UTC (History)
5 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
Sample 1 (13.37 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2019-04-06 00:18 UTC, kitchm
Details
Sample 2 (17.03 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2019-04-06 00:18 UTC, kitchm
Details

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Description kitchm 2019-04-02 18:45:13 UTC
Description:
The option to display the document margin lines is missing in Writer.  While there is an option to View>Fomatting Marks, that clutters the screen with unwanted marks.

This problem has been mentioned before at https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/msg16754.html 

All that is needed is an option to configure what the user wishes to view, or to display a check mark for it on the View menu.

Steps to Reproduce:
1.There is no option.
2.
3.

Actual Results:
Does not display by default and there is no way to turn it on by itself.

Expected Results:
There is no option.


Reproducible: Always


User Profile Reset: No



Additional Info:
This is a serious issue for the user in that it fails to give extremely vital visual clues while editing.
Comment 1 Dieter 2019-04-02 19:39:33 UTC
I think it could be a useful option for somebody who doesn't want to enable Formatting marks. So perhaps it is posible to ad an option to the option dialog (therefor I changed the bug summary to make a concrete proposal)
Comment 2 kitchm 2019-04-02 19:56:05 UTC
Thanks, Dieter.  That makes sense.  I have never liked the clutter of unnecessary marks when all we need is a pale line on the sides to show where the margins end.
Comment 3 V Stuart Foote 2019-04-02 20:21:53 UTC
Sorry but don't see this as valid? We either show full margins with other NPC, or we show simple corner tics that delimit the margin settings. A simple clean toggle, why complicate it?

=> WFM
Comment 4 kitchm 2019-04-02 21:06:00 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #3)
> Sorry but don't see this as valid? We either show full margins with other
> NPC, or we show simple corner tics that delimit the margin settings. A
> simple clean toggle, why complicate it?
> 
> => WFM

Please define NPC.  Then I can respond.
Comment 5 V Stuart Foote 2019-04-03 02:07:39 UTC
(In reply to kitchm from comment #4)
> > => WFM
> 
> Please define NPC.  Then I can respond.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-printing_character_in_word_processors

Functionally, field markers, header/footer boundaries, non-printing control characters, and _margins_ are all non-printing formatting.  We toggle with <Ctrl>+F10 or <Ctrl>+F8, depending on element, but have several open UX enhancment issues under meta bug 102345 to rework some inconsistencies.

Here though, we already provide a simple toggle with the <Ctrl>+F10
Comment 6 V Stuart Foote 2019-04-03 02:21:55 UTC
This was already open as an enhancement after rework of bug 46073 moving the page layout under the <Ctrl>+F10 formatting toggle.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 74386 ***
Comment 7 kitchm 2019-04-05 16:56:42 UTC
I am using LibreOffice Version: 5.2.7.2
Build ID: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u5
CPU Threads: 2; OS Version: Linux 4.9; UI Render: default; VCL: gtk2; 
Locale: en-US (en_US.utf8); Calc: group
on Debian 9 and Xfce 4.12.1.

Ctrl+F10 does nothing.

I have opened my documents on this fresh system after creating them with OpenOffice on the old one.  On document shows the margin lines and another does not.  Of course, I have no idea why that is.
Comment 8 V Stuart Foote 2019-04-05 17:25:26 UTC
(In reply to kitchm from comment #7)
> I am using LibreOffice Version: 5.2.7.2
> Build ID: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u5
> CPU Threads: 2; OS Version: Linux 4.9; UI Render: default; VCL: gtk2; 
> Locale: en-US (en_US.utf8); Calc: group
> on Debian 9 and Xfce 4.12.1.
> 
> Ctrl+F10 does nothing.
> 
> I have opened my documents on this fresh system after creating them with
> OpenOffice on the old one.  On document shows the margin lines and another
> does not.  Of course, I have no idea why that is.

If not the <Ctrl>+F10 accelerator (os/DE dependent) it is also a button action on the Standard toolbar--marked with the "Pilcrow" glyph.
Comment 9 kitchm 2019-04-05 19:52:31 UTC
Otherwise called the "paragraph" symbol.

In any case, that does nothing different than exactly what is being addressed here, and is therefore of no value in this context.
Comment 10 V Stuart Foote 2019-04-05 20:30:44 UTC
(In reply to kitchm from comment #9)
> Otherwise called the "paragraph" symbol.
> 
> In any case, that does nothing different than exactly what is being
> addressed here, and is therefore of no value in this context.

Hmm, suspect it points to the only other means by which this could occur. Differences between your two documents would require that one has a Page Border set.

Format -> Page -> Properties -> Borders panel

Is there a preset or user defined border--for page it will position to the margins as set?

Otherwise the toggle <Ctrl>+F10 or the "Toggle Formatting Marks" button includes the page margins--non-printing, only for layout.
Comment 11 kitchm 2019-04-05 20:45:35 UTC
There is no:
Format -> Page -> Properties -> Borders panel

There is a pop-up window when Format>Page is selected.  In that, there is a Borders tab, but it is not selected in either case.
Comment 12 V Stuart Foote 2019-04-05 21:41:34 UTC
OK, could you "anonymize" [1] the two files, and cut them down to a single page or two that still shows the border and no-border, and attach them.

=-ref-=
[1] easiest to use a Find & Replace dialog, check the Regular expressions active then Find "[A-Za-z]" and Replace = "x"  That leaves the whole document intact maintaining any style or direct formatting including any page formatting.
Comment 13 kitchm 2019-04-06 00:18:07 UTC
Created attachment 150554 [details]
Sample 1
Comment 14 kitchm 2019-04-06 00:18:38 UTC
Created attachment 150555 [details]
Sample 2
Comment 15 V Stuart Foote 2019-04-06 15:24:56 UTC
@Regina, reviewing the content and style XML I can not figure out where the border being applied to all paragraphs of Sample 2 (attachment 150555 [details]) is coming from. Any insights? Thanks!
Comment 16 V Stuart Foote 2019-04-06 15:36:49 UTC
None of the LibreOffice GUI controls for Borders (column, paragraph, page) are set--and the borders end with the paragraphs on the last page, so does not seem to be part of page style or margin formatting.  

This ODF text document is weird.
Comment 17 Regina Henschel 2019-04-06 18:08:45 UTC
The relevant settings are in Tools > Options > LO > Application Colors. But I think, that they are buggy.

In the section 'General' the setting 'Text boundaries' makes the gray corner ticks (non-printing characters off) or the solid line around the page text area (non-printing characters on).

The section 'Text Document' has the additional setting 'section boundaries'.

The document 'Sample 2' is not a simple document, but all text is in a section. To distinguish between the page text area and the section, you can set eye-catching colors in the options instead of the automatic gray.
For better distinction you should put a single paragraph in 'Sample 1' in a section.

Expected behavior:
If 'Text boundaries' is on and non-printing characters is off, then the corner ticks of the page text area are visible. If non-printing characters in on, then the page text area is surrounded by a solid line. If 'Text boundaries' is off, neither corner ticks nor solid lines are drawn.
The checkbox 'section boundaries' should toggle, whether section boundaries are shown or not. This setting is independent of the setting 'Text boundaries'.

Errors are:
1) Unchecking 'section boundaries' in 'Application colors' does not work.
2) Setting 'text boundaries' affects sections too, but should not.

It works in Apache OpenOffice, only that Apache OpenOffice has no corner ticks. In LO it is broken at least since LO 3.5.

You cannot find it in the document, because it is a general user setting and no setting on document level.
Comment 18 V Stuart Foote 2019-04-06 19:09:44 UTC
In addition to not following the "Section boundaries" checkbox in Tools -> Options -> Application Colors dialog, the borders are not being shown when the Section is changed from Single column to multi-column.  

Done via the Format -> Sections... -> Options dialog's Columns tab, and where changes to the Background tab (None, Color, or Pattern) likewise do not affect the border.
Comment 19 kitchm 2019-04-29 19:20:51 UTC
So why don't the pale border lines show up in my documents without the paragraph marks?
Comment 20 kitchm 2019-04-29 19:23:46 UTC
And why would a word processor use some sort of marker for sections when there are no sections?
Comment 21 Xisco Faulí 2020-03-09 13:29:11 UTC
Please add keyword 'needsUXEval' and CC 'libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org' if input from UX is needed.