Bug 127702 - Support setting quantitative font features relatively to underlying paragraph style
Summary: Support setting quantitative font features relatively to underlying paragraph...
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
unspecified
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2019-09-22 21:04 UTC by Eyal Rozenberg
Modified: 2022-05-24 20:51 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:
Regression By:


Attachments
Example of how there's no relative font sizing (14.00 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2019-09-25 07:59 UTC, Eyal Rozenberg
Details
Example of how there's no relative font sizing (13.96 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2019-09-25 18:38 UTC, Eyal Rozenberg
Details

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Description Eyal Rozenberg 2019-09-22 21:04:45 UTC
I often want to define a character style with features which relative to the paragraph style by some ratio. For example: A 125% font size; or 2x the inter-character space. Now, I can achieve this with setting the font size or the space in points - but then I need to define a separate character style for each paragraph style, which is annoying and difficult to maintain.
Comment 1 Dieter 2019-09-25 06:15:01 UTC
It's possible to change font size  in the paragraph style dialog to 125%, but I'm not sure, if I grasp your problem or idea. Perhaps you can give a concrete example with some concrete steps?
Comment 2 Eyal Rozenberg 2019-09-25 07:59:01 UTC
Created attachment 154467 [details]
Example of how there's no relative font sizing
Comment 3 Eyal Rozenberg 2019-09-25 08:03:15 UTC
(In reply to Dieter Praas from comment #1)
> It's possible to change font size  in the paragraph style dialog to 125%

Yes, but also no. The percentage value we can enter now is _not_ relative to the paragraph's font size. I'm not even sure what it means exactly - it's probably relative to some fixed baseline (which?). That's kind of confusing - maybe meriting a separate bug.

For other settings, like inter-character space, you can't use a percentage value at all (which is at least clear and consistent).
Comment 4 Dieter 2019-09-25 11:12:20 UTC
I agree, that it is confusing.

Your character style Test 1 has font size 150% = 18pt. This would be correct, if standard is 12pt, but I can't see that setting anywhere.

Character size in default style is 30pt (not 20pt).

So I think some information is needed how it should work.

cc: Design Team
Comment 5 Eyal Rozenberg 2019-09-25 18:38:08 UTC
Created attachment 154502 [details]
Example of how there's no relative font sizing
Comment 6 Eyal Rozenberg 2019-09-25 18:40:43 UTC
(In reply to Dieter Praas from comment #4)
> Character size in default style is 30pt (not 20pt).

Yes, sorry, fixed (re-uploaded the attachment).

> So I think some information is needed how it should work.

Are you asking me? If you are, one option I was thinking of is that you would be able to enter a percentage for any quantitative value, and it will be based on the underlying paragraph style - so that if you change the paragraph style, the percentage value remains the same, but actual font you'll see may be larger or smaller.
Comment 7 Dieter 2019-09-26 09:47:03 UTC
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #6)
> (In reply to Dieter Praas from comment #4)
> Are you asking me?

No, I hope that somebody from design team is more familiar with that topic than we are.
Comment 8 Heiko Tietze 2019-09-30 08:10:43 UTC
You can enter either 24 (pt) or 200% (just add the % sign) at the font size input to get double the size of your parent font. So the request is working as expected.

But the relative font size is indeed not well documented. The old AOO wiki is more verbose https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/Writer_Guide/Working_with_paragraph_styles

So forwarding to the documentation team.
Comment 9 Eyal Rozenberg 2019-09-30 08:20:30 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8)
> You can enter either 24 (pt) or 200% (just add the % sign) at the font size
> input to get double the size of your parent font. So the request is working
> as expected.
> 
> But the relative font size is indeed not well documented. The old AOO wiki
> is more verbose
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/Writer_Guide/
> Working_with_paragraph_styles
> 
> So forwarding to the documentation team.
Comment 10 Eyal Rozenberg 2019-09-30 08:21:13 UTC
Excuse me, this is not a bug about documenting relative font size. You can open such a bug if you like. This bug is about a missing feature for all quantitative font features.
Comment 11 Eyal Rozenberg 2019-09-30 08:24:48 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8)
> So the request is working as expected.

First, again, this is about setting fractional/relative values for everything: Inter-character spacing, horizontal glyph scaling, font size etc.

Second - it is not working as expected even for font size, as the attached document demonstrates. The percentage is not relative to the paragraph's font size.
Comment 12 Dieter 2019-09-30 08:27:59 UTC
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #11)
> (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8)
> > So the request is working as expected.
> 
> First, again, this is about setting fractional/relative values for
> everything: Inter-character spacing, horizontal glyph scaling, font size etc.
> 
> Second - it is not working as expected even for font size, as the attached
> document demonstrates. The percentage is not relative to the paragraph's
> font size.

So also status back to UNCONFIRMED.
Comment 13 Xisco Faulí 2019-12-12 12:51:43 UTC
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #11)
> (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8)
> > So the request is working as expected.
> 
> First, again, this is about setting fractional/relative values for
> everything: Inter-character spacing, horizontal glyph scaling, font size etc.
> 
> Second - it is not working as expected even for font size, as the attached
> document demonstrates. The percentage is not relative to the paragraph's
> font size.

More input from UX team is needed
Comment 14 Heiko Tietze 2019-12-13 07:40:53 UTC
(In reply to Xisco Faulí from comment #13)
> More input from UX team is needed

As stated in comment 8, I don't see the need for an enhancement. From the documentation: 

"If you are creating a style based on another style (linked style), you can specify a font size relative to that other style—either as a percentage or as a plus or minus point value (–2pt or +5pt).... To specify a percentage font size: in the Paragraph Style dialog, select the Font tab. In the Size box, enter the percentage amount followed by the symbol % (see Figure 9). Similarly, you can
enter a plus or minus sign followed by the number of points to be added or subtracted from the base font size."

In a nutshell: Just enter the number followed by the percent sign.
Comment 15 Eyal Rozenberg 2019-12-13 09:13:14 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #14)

Heiko, with respect - you're repeating your comment 8, and completely ignoring my reply to it comment 11. Unfortunately I must repeat it:

1. This issue is _not_ about font size, mostly. Font size is just one field out of many. How do I set relative character spacing? e.g. "characters are twice as far between as in the underlying paragraph"?

2. Your suggestions about font size _just don't work_. The attached document demonstrates this with percentage-based setting. But offset-based also fails. If you Enter "+5pt" you get a font size of... 5 pt. Nothing relative.

If that's in the documentation, then the documentation is wrong.
Comment 16 Heiko Tietze 2019-12-13 11:11:13 UTC
Now I got it. You ask for _all_ attributes to be in percent to the parent style. Likely not a common workflow, let's see if a developer is interested. UI-wise I suggest to implement it as the font size is done: if % is added to the value it's relative to the parent.
Comment 17 Eyal Rozenberg 2019-12-13 12:52:24 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #16)
> Now I got it.

Almost!

>  You ask for _all_ attributes to be in percent to the parent style

Depends. You see, right now, the "Default Style" is not actually interpreted as having the paragraph's style. Perhaps that's just a bug, perhaps it's intentional. But it is imperative for us to be able to set percentages relative to the paragraph's style. That can either be through "Default Style" as a character style, or directly.

Do you want me to file a separate bug for how "X % of Default Style" is not "X% of the paragraph style"?
Comment 18 Heiko Tietze 2019-12-13 13:50:39 UTC
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #17)
> Do you want me to file a separate bug for how "X % of Default Style" is not
> "X% of the paragraph style"?

I would rather wait for a developer.