Description: Currently, if you want your Drop-Caps-Paragraph to start with a quotation / a sentence a character speaks, there are two options: 1. Only have the quotation mark enormous, which obviously doesn't look too great. 2. Have both quotation mark and the following letter big. This is a little better, but still isn't ideal. Why? Because many writers would prefer something like this: http://theworldsgreatestbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/quoteInitial1.gif or this: https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/8/72/288889973-Drop_caps_quote.png I suggest: 1. Create an [Ignore] option in the Drop Caps settings for a style. Make it a textbox or a field of common symbols where the user can write/choose symbols, that should be ignored. There, the user could, for example, put in/select quotation marks ("), which will make the first letter AFTER the quotation mark big. 2.1. Additionally, add the option, that IF one of those exception-characters was detected, LO could add/remove an extra-indent, to make the quotation mark not displace the Drop Caps letter. 2.2. In addition to 2.2., give the user to check a "Indent the first line by the skipped characters' width.". 3. Add settings to individually style both the "skipped" character before the Drop Caps and after them. Those changes should give users WAY more freedom to style their Drop Caps... and Drop Caps are something beautiful. Here's a picture of several different Drop Caps, and it would be amazing, if LO had the capabilities to achieve similar results: http://etutorials.org/shared/images/tutorials/tutorial_77/figure10_16_quote.jpg Actual Results: Expected Results: Reproducible: Always User Profile Reset: No Additional Info: Also, as a somewhat new user, I really have no idea how to style the current Drop Caps. I suspect, it's by editing a special style only Drop Caps use. Possibly, this could be made more intuitive too. (maybe just by adding a "Edit Drop Caps"-button that makes the correct settings-window pop up)
Created attachment 164608 [details] Sub-optimal 1
Created attachment 164609 [details] Sub-optimal 2
I support that idea.
> PARAGRAPH DIALOG: Improve Drop Caps to make them work with quotation marks. That is the main goal, but there might be other possibilities as well. This is why having more options (and options to style the quotation mark individually) is important. When implementing this, it's important to remember that there are many different forms of quotation marks. Just copying some common ones from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark): “Asdf” "Asdf" ‘Asdf’ 'Asdf' «Asdf» 「Asdf」 ‚Asdf‘ „Asdf“
Not sure that we can add this to the document. Keep in mind LibreOffice is restricted to the open standard of ODF, which has to allow settings so it would be available at any application using this format. Also consider that such an option, if new, would fail on round-trips with MSO. Regina, what do you think? Requests 2.1 & 2.2 can be solved with a special paragraph style. Although you have to apply it manually (or per macro) I'm against any automatic if-then complexity. Don't get #3 but it's likely similar - if you can do manually please keep the application simple.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #5) > Not sure that we can add this to the document. Keep in mind LibreOffice is > restricted to the open standard of ODF, which has to allow settings so it > would be available at any application using this format. Also consider that > such an option, if new, would fail on round-trips with MSO. This is not an uncommon issue when using Drop Caps in a novel/fiction book. If the odf. Format does not support this, it might be a good idea to correct this missing feature. (Which - I know - is not LO's job. It's still something important though.) > Don't get #3 but it's likely similar - if you can do > manually please keep the application simple. #3 is pretty much "Create a Character-Style for the character in front of the big Drop Caps letter, that then can be edited, just the same way you can edit the Drop Caps character style." > I'm against any automatic if-then complexity. 1. I don't think it would be that complex... The user can decide whether to use this feature and which Symbols should be skipped. 2. Also, how would you go about properly editing the Quotation marks? I have tried, but it doesn't work properly.
Actually ODF supports it fine, just the ODF 1.3 "Canned" paragraph Drop Cap [1] remains limited in composing the style:drop-cap It is convenient of course to just tic a box on the Paragraph style Drop Caps tab--but it is trivial otherwise to assign a typographically rich Character Style (or two) to the leading character or words including punctuation of the text run in a paragraph. And to reuse character style(s) on subsequent paragraphs. Such character styling can be captured into templates for reuse. Adjusting the LO instance of "style:length word" attribute syntax to include preceding punctuation might also be possible. But would diverge from ODF 1.3 norm. But IMHO => WF as reasonable function applying character style to text runs is already provided. =-ref-= [1] https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/cs01/part3-schema/OpenDocument-v1.3-cs01-part3-schema.html#element-style_drop-cap Providing attributes: distance, length, lines & style-name
Am I unaware of crucial features? Is it possible to create a big character that drops down multiple lines, makes the text flow around it and incorporate this (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70180) functionality without using drop Caps? IF the user is supposed to use the Drop Caps paragraph style, how is the user supposed to use character styles?? 1. Changing Attributes such as character size of the style used in one of the Drop-Caps-letters, is really buggy. Size 12 still is being displayed enormously. Letters are cut off, force adjacent letters to be tiny, etc. 2. If the user is supposed to write letters BEFORE the grey Drop-Caps-box, how can he do that? I have not found a way to accomplish this feat. 3. If the user has to completely recreate Drop Caps via character styles, what good is the Drop Caps option in the paragraph-settings?
Created attachment 165787 [details] Drop caps (In reply to Clarc from comment #8) > Am I unaware of crucial features? Stuart talks about Paragraph properties/style > Drop Cap > Is it possible to create a big character that drops down multiple lines, > makes the text flow around it and incorporate this > (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70180) functionality > without using drop Caps? You can use a special character style. You cannot have extra characters in front (without applying the same format).
> Created attachment 165787 [details] > Drop caps Unfortunately, this lacks the (normal looking) quotation mark. > You cannot have extra characters in front (without applying the same format). That's the main problem.
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #7) > It is convenient of course to just tic a box on the Paragraph style Drop > Caps tab--but it is trivial otherwise to assign a typographically rich > Character Style (or two) to the leading character or words including > punctuation of the text run in a paragraph. And to reuse character style(s) > on subsequent paragraphs. I would favor this checkbox solution, with it being enabled by default and labeled something like "Account for quotation marks" and accepting all characters with the Unicode/ICU property "UCHAR_QUOTATION_MARK".
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #7) > ... it is trivial otherwise to assign a typographically rich > Character Style (or two) to the leading character or words including > punctuation of the text run in a paragraph. The CS doesn't make the character spans multiple lines as drop caps does. Drop caps are defined in the open document format [1] and we have to stick to this for compatibility. So WF. What you can do is to apply a superscript CS to the first character(s) of your drop caps, looks terrible however. [1] http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#__RefHeading__1416500_253892949
So there'll straight up never be a way to properly typeset a Chapter in a novel that 1. Uses Drop Caps 2. Starts with speech 3. Doesn't look horrendous? Or should I try to file a feature request at the makers of .odt? Are they open to such suggestions?
(In reply to Clarc from comment #13) > Or should I try to file a feature request at the makers of .odt? Are they > open to such suggestions? Regina, how to file a feature request at OASIS?
Created attachment 166122 [details] Suggestion how to get the desired visual appearance with current tools A feature request would go to "office-comment" list, see https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=office#feedback But the ODF TC will not add a feature to the standard, which is nowhere implemented. The standard has the "extended" mode, to allow implementors to add features in addition to that what is available in the current "strict" mode. To get the quotation marks smaller do this: Mark the quotation mark, then use Format > Character... On tab "Position" in that dialog, set "Superscript" and clear "Automatic". Set "Raise/lower by" and "Relative font size" to suitable values. A relative font size of 70% and a raise by 35% might work for a 2-line Drop Cap. To get the line start shifted, so that the character after the quotation mark is optical in line with the further lines of the paragraph, use a negative first line indent. That is on tab "Indent&Spacing" in the paragraph style dialog.