Description: The RLO symbol is documented here: https://www.unicode.org/reports/tr9/#Directional_Formatting_Codes I wasn't able to find it in the David CLM font. But it was on Liberation Serif. The symbol should be on every font that supports RTL. It doesn't have and visual symbol anyway so no icon is required. Steps to Reproduce: 1. Go to Insert -> Symbol 2. Search your favorite RTL font for Override. 3. No RLO on the list Actual Results: Feature is missing Expected Results: Can choose the RLO symbol Reproducible: Always User Profile Reset: No Additional Info: Show the RLO symbol גרסה: 6.4.7.2 מזהה הבנייה: 6.4.7-7 תהליכי משנה במעבד: 8; מערכת הפעלה: Linux 5.9; עיבוד מנשק: בררת מחדל; VCL: kf5; מיקום: he-IL (en_US.UTF-8); UI-Language: he-IL
More generally, the issue is as follows: The Insert Special Character dialog should allow the user to locate, select and insert Unicode characters which are non-printing, regardless of which font family is chosen in the dialog. However - that is not the case. With some selected families - one cannot even locate, let alone select and copy, some of these characters; while with other families, more (or all) of them are available, e.g. Specifically, I tried this with the Right-Left Override character, and got * Failure with: David CLM (bundled with LibreOffice), Nachlieli CLM, Linux Libertine, Georgia * Success with: Liberation Sans, Liberation Serif, Noto Sans and I also tried this with Right-to-Left Mark, and got: * Failure with: Linux Libertine, Georgia * Success with: David CLM, Nachlieli CLM, Liberation Sans, Liberation Serif, Noto Sans (the choice of fonts is arbitrary, except that David CLM is LibreOffice' default for Hebrew text)
Remember: Right-to-Left Override, or RLO, is Unicode character U+202D Right-to-Left Mark, or RLM, is Unicode character U+200F (the latter can be entered using the standard Hebrew keyboard layout using RightAlt+0) For the unfamiliar, read this: https://www.unicode.org/reports/tr9/#Directional_Formatting_Codes
And one final bit of spam for today: My findings were using Version: 7.0.3.1 Build ID: d7547858d014d4cf69878db179d326fc3483e082 CPU threads: 4; OS: Linux 5.2; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3 Locale: he-IL (en_IL); UI: en-US
Dear Shay G, To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today, LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed bugs which have not been touched for over a year. There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in getting confirmation that the bug is still present. If you have time, please do the following: Test to see if the bug is still present with the latest version of LibreOffice from https://www.libreoffice.org/download/ If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the information from Help - About LibreOffice. If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a comment that includes the information from Help - About LibreOffice. Please DO NOT Update the version field Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker) Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular meaning that is not appropriate in this case) If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a REGRESSION. To do so: 1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3) from https://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/ 2. Test your bug 3. Leave a comment with your results. 4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to 'inherited from OOo'; 4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add 'regression' to keyword Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat: https://web.libera.chat/?settings=#libreoffice-qa Thank you for helping us make LibreOffice even better for everyone! Warm Regards, QA Team MassPing-UntouchedBug
Bug re-confirmed. Version: 7.3.7.2 / LibreOffice Community Build ID: 30(Build:2) CPU threads: 32; OS: Linux 6.0; UI render: default; VCL: kf5 (cairo+xcb) Locale: he-IL (en_US.UTF-8); UI: he-IL 7.3.7-2 Calc: threaded
I disagree. We have a special menu for insertion of marks: Insert->Formatting Mark->Right-to-Left mark. This feature provides exactly the necessary functionality to insert a font-agnostic Unicode non-printing codepoint to control the directionality. On the other hand, there is the dialog in question, that is intended to show what is there in the fonts. And nothing else. The issue may be its (and its command) title "Special Character(s)" - which has always confused me: it's not about anything special, it's about any characters of specific fonts. The similar dialog in Windows is called "charmap"; in Word, it's "Symbol" dialog. But anyway: this request to add non-existing elements to fonts, based on "they are non-printing", is WF IMO.
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #6) Insert > Formatting Marks only offers some of the available control characters / formatting marks. Just for bidirectional control alone there are 12 control chars; the menu has just two. Do you suggest they all be added? And then - what about control characters from here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C0_and_C1_control_codes even just the 12 will make the menu already deterring for many/most users. It's a good idea, IMHO, that it only offers some marks. > On the other hand, there is the dialog in question, that is intended to show > what is there in the fonts. And nothing else. That's really not true. This is the "Insert > Special Character..." dialog, not "Insert > Font Glyph..." ; users justifiably expect to be able to insert any special character from that dialog, without having to determine whether some typeface artificially contains that character or not. Moreover, even if the dialog only said "character", and even if the Formatting Marks actually included RLO/LOR - it is still legitimate and reasonable to have cross-coverage of functionality from different parts of the UI. It's ok if the user found their way to the special character via browsing the Unicode ranges - and we should not hinder their desire to then say "ok, I want to put one of these in my document". > The issue may be its (and its command) title "Special Character(s)" - which > has always confused me: it's not about anything special, it's about any > characters of specific fonts. It has been implemented that way. This bug report requires a change in that implementation, and that change is merited IMHO. This can be achieved without worsening or slowing down the workflow for users looking for glyphs/symbols. > But anyway: this request to add non-existing elements to fonts We should definitely implement this in a way which does not confuse users about this fact. That can happen in multiple ways, e.g. : 1. Toggle/checkbox for searching for glyphs in fonts vs non-printing control characters where the font doesn't matter. 2. Some kind of visual indication that a control character in the table is presented, and can be inserted, irrespective of whether than font "has it" or not. maybe some inner frame, or background hatching, or color triangle at a corner etc.
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #7) > Insert > Formatting Marks only offers some of the available control > characters / formatting marks. Just for bidirectional control alone there > are 12 control chars; the menu has just two. Do you suggest they all be > added? And then - what about control characters from here? > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C0_and_C1_control_codes If there are many control characters, then we need a new dialog for their insertion, instead of individual menu entries.
... and if we want to re-use exactly *this* dialog, then it only can de implemented by making this dialog multi-tab: one tab for the fonts' glyphs (having everything it has now), and another tab for "control characters", which would be font-agnostic, and would be there to implement that "users found this in UI, let's provide this here" idea (which is valid, but must not confuse by pretending that these characters are present in a font where they are not). Additionally, such distinction could emphasize their functional role; in that dialog, we could explain their functionality, and help to choose the one that is needed for some specific need, better than using a cell in the grid.
The request is not to insert the bell character or any other but RLO. Which is available and efficient. I agree with WF but would appreciate if Shay confirms.
The Special Character Dialog is our offering of a character map. It has always been "single font", and was refactored to drop Unicode-centric chart representation (compressing out empty codepoints, but kept Unicode's 16 column table). So for supporting workflows where NPC, e.g. directional controls, are not provided glyphs, we could offer a toggle to build a composite font chart--filling in glyphs when current single font does not cover them. And allowing user configuration to their preferences (both single font and fonts used for composite). A good example of this approach, see Bablestone's (Adam West's) BableMap utility offering. https://www.babelstone.co.uk/Software/BabelMap.html unfortunately Windows only. Otherwise as Mike notes, the NPC are control/formatting characters and we provide UI (Insert -> Formatting Mark) to input when desired without dependence on the SCD. The SCD, when the font supports it, *is* an alternate way of inserting the control character for the PS active font if it "covers" it. Otherwise our Alt+X conversion can be used to enter the Directional Formatting control glyphs [1] that receive fallback font (that may or may not be rendered with a visible glyph). =-ref-= [1] https://www.unicode.org/reports/tr9/#Directional_Formatting_Codes
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #10) > The request is not to insert the bell character or any other but RLO. RLO is just the example. The request is that when one sees a control char in the dialog, one is able to realize the natural desire to insert that character; and is not hindered by the artificial, and irrelevant, fact of the font displayed in the dialog not having a (dummy) entry for that control character. > insert... RLO ... Which is available and efficient. 1. Where is it available? 2. Even if it were, the point is not efficiency, but rather not to frustrate the user's wishes. Preventing a very straightforward interaction with our UI because "well, you can do that another way which we like better" - is a bad idea.
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #11) > So for supporting workflows where NPC, e.g. directional controls, are not > provided glyphs, we could offer a toggle to build a composite font > chart--filling in glyphs when current single font does not cover them. And > allowing user configuration to their preferences (both single font and fonts > used for composite). This is possible, and quite possibly a good idea in itself, but is much more far-reaching in terms of the UI implications (and perhaps coding effort). It also relates to bug 151215, and font selections in MSO (see bug 151215 comment 19). However - when there's no glyph necessary, i.e. for non-printing characters, and at least for the "special" characters this bug is concerned with - there is no need to build anything. In fact, even with a composite font - it may be the case that none of the components claims to cover the control chars, and we would be left with the same problem (of this bug)...
*** Bug 162635 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Mike's comment 8 and comment 9 of adding an additional tab to the SCD to support charmap of font neutral NPC formatting and control characters would be viable UI. It could be font aware by default, but support visualizing when glyphs are filled by fallback. Layout might be a question, i.e. keep the 16 col of Unicode charts or a list with UCS string name. Several ways to slice it for efficient lookup, and a search (against UCS name) will still be needed. Then some decision about search of localized string (as provided now with the Insert -> Formatting Mark menu list).
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #15) > Mike's comment 8 and comment 9 of adding an additional tab to the SCD to > support charmap of font neutral NPC formatting and control characters would > be viable UI. Definitely a possibility. Something similar-but-different would be having one of the "Character Blocks" be "Non-printing & Control characters", perhaps marking it different somehow; and when that's chose, the choice of font disappears, making it clear (?) that the character is font-independent. Or a toggle to control this effect. The "benefit" is that you avoid the work of designing the extra tab. > Layout might be a question, i.e. keep the 16 col of Unicode charts or a list > with UCS string name. Several ways to slice it for efficient lookup, and a > search (against UCS name) will still be needed. Then some decision about > search of localized string (as provided now with the Insert -> Formatting > Mark menu list). ... although the different design might be useful.
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #16) > (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #15) > > Mike's comment 8 and comment 9 of adding an additional tab to the SCD to > > support charmap of font neutral NPC formatting and control characters would > > be viable UI. > > Definitely a possibility. Something similar-but-different would be having > one of the "Character Blocks" be "Non-printing & Control characters", > perhaps marking it different somehow; and when that's chose, the choice of > font disappears, making it clear (?) that the character is font-independent. > Or a toggle to control this effect. The "benefit" is that you avoid the work > of designing the extra tab. > > > Layout might be a question, i.e. keep the 16 col of Unicode charts or a list > > with UCS string name. Several ways to slice it for efficient lookup, and a > > search (against UCS name) will still be needed. Then some decision about > > search of localized string (as provided now with the Insert -> Formatting > > Mark menu list). > > ... although the different design might be useful. That idea sounds very clear for the user, too!