Bug 140759 - PDF/A-1a export not in selection dialog, but the choice PDF/A-1b sometimes exports PDF/A-1a compliant files
Summary: PDF/A-1a export not in selection dialog, but the choice PDF/A-1b sometimes ex...
Status: RESOLVED NOTABUG
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Printing and PDF export (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
6.4.6.2 release
Hardware: All Linux (All)
: medium trivial
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: needsDevAdvice
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2021-03-02 12:42 UTC by Jan-Åke Larsson
Modified: 2022-03-08 16:00 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments

Note You need to log in before you can comment on or make changes to this bug.
Description Jan-Åke Larsson 2021-03-02 12:42:26 UTC
Description:
As I understand it, PDF/A-1a is more restrictive than PDF/A-1b. 

My organization requires archiving in PDF/A-1a, and several of our users will start exporting to it. Since only PDF/A-1b is available in the dialog, our support advises using another converter, or moving away from libreoffice. 

My test (using verapdf) tells me that selecting PDF/A-1b in the dialog exports PDF/A-1a. 
- Is this expected behavior?
- Will this always work?
- What is the reason for writing the less restrictive PDF/A-1b in the dialog
- Why do the docs only mention PDF/A-1a?

If the export is PDF/A-1a, I'd recommend to write that in the dialog.

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Attempt to export PDF/A-1b


Actual Results:
Obtain PDF/A-1a (which is better!)

Expected Results:
I'd expect to obtain PDF/A-1b. Since PDF/A-1a does obey PDF/A-1b, my expectations are fulfilled.


Reproducible: Always


User Profile Reset: No



Additional Info:
Display that PDF/A-1a will be generated in the export dialog
Comment 1 Julien Nabet 2021-03-02 17:25:00 UTC
LO proposes:
PDF/A-1b
PDF/A-2b
PDF/A-3b
+ a checkbox to enable/disable PDF/UA option

IMHO LO doesn't propose 
PDF/A-1a
PDF/A-2a
PDF/A-3a
because there must be accessibility issues to implement/fix.
So for some files, I suppose there's no accessibility issues and validator will indicate your file as PDF/A-1a compliant but for others it may fail and only indicate PDF/A-1b.

Of course I may be wrong but if if it's not the case, I'd put this bugtracker more as an enhancement (which may stay quite a lot of time if no devs are interested in implementing/fixing this. -oldest bugtrackers are more than 10 years ago! -)

Miklos: I put you in cc if you got more info. If it's not the case, don't hesitate to uncc and sorry for the noise.
Comment 2 Jan-Åke Larsson 2021-03-02 19:13:33 UTC
This could be understood as: LibreOffice /can/ output PDF/A-1a for simple documents, and falls back to PDF/A-1b in case this is not possible.

I suggest clarifying this in the docs, and also in the dialog.

Thanks for an excellent document suite, by the way!
Comment 3 Julien Nabet 2021-03-02 19:51:04 UTC
(In reply to Jan-Åke Larsson from comment #2)
> This could be understood as: LibreOffice /can/ output PDF/A-1a for simple
> documents, and falls back to PDF/A-1b in case this is not possible.
> 
> I suggest clarifying this in the docs, and also in the dialog.
I don't understand the need to clarify in the docs.
LO just tries to provide at least a reliable PDF/A-<n>b, <n> depending on the user choice.
There's no analyzing mechanism in LO to fallback into PDF/A-<n>b if it can't generate PDF/A-<n>a in pdf export code.

If it complies PDF/A-<n>a sometimes (for some simple or for some complex files), you can see it as just a bonus/luck.
Comment 4 Jan-Åke Larsson 2021-03-02 19:57:15 UTC
It could be beneficial for users who are not experts on the intricacies of the PDF format that LibreOffice can indeed export PDF/A-1a for simple documents. This is not clear at the moment. 

Also just now there is quite some confusion since the export dialog says PDF/A-1b and the docs say PDF/A-1a. At least that could become clearer.
Comment 5 Julien Nabet 2021-03-02 22:05:55 UTC
Since I disagree here, I prefer to uncc myself and let other people decide.
Comment 6 Jan-Åke Larsson 2021-03-02 22:14:56 UTC
(I know Julien won't read this but...)

I find it strange that you don't think the docs can be improved. 

Plus, if LibreOffice did aim for PDF/A-1b, it would not generate PDF/A-1a even for simple documents. It seems it does try to generate PDF/A-1a but can only guarantee PDF/A-1b.

That should be visible in the docs, and in the dialog, IMHO.
Comment 7 Dieter 2022-03-04 17:47:29 UTC
Jan-Åke, whre can I see specification in exported PDF (I use Acrobat reader)?

Is it sufficient to improve documetation: https://help.libreoffice.org/7.3/en-US/text/shared/01/ref_pdf_export_general.html

=> NEEDINFO
Comment 8 Jan-Åke Larsson 2022-03-04 19:15:04 UTC
Acrobat reader does not, to my knowledge, display the PDF/A level. You will need a proper verifier to 1) display what PDF/A level a given PDF claims to obey and 2) verify that it obeys that level.

verapdf is such a verifier.

It is likely not enough to document in the referred page, I did not reach that page when trying to find information on this. Some is better than none I suppose.
Comment 9 QA Administrators 2022-03-05 03:34:34 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 10 Dieter 2022-03-08 15:24:24 UTC
(In reply to Jan-Åke Larsson from comment #8)
> It is likely not enough to document in the referred page, I did not reach
> that page when trying to find information on this.

It's just the page you get, when you press Help-Button in "Export as PDF"-Dialog :-)
Comment 11 Jan-Åke Larsson 2022-03-08 15:45:23 UTC
I see, in that case it would probably be enough. :-)
Comment 12 Dieter 2022-03-08 15:53:27 UTC
(In reply to Jan-Åke Larsson from comment #11)
> I see, in that case it would probably be enough. :-)

So let's close it.
=> RESOLVED WORKSFORME
Comment 13 Jan-Åke Larsson 2022-03-08 15:57:04 UTC
No, that page does not mention PDF/A-1a. 

Please amend the documentation so that it states when it is possible to obtain PDF/A-1a using LibreOffice.
Comment 14 Jan-Åke Larsson 2022-03-08 15:57:38 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 15 Dieter 2022-03-08 16:00:42 UTC
Since discussion in this bug report is very long, please open a new report, which refers to documentation as component and asks to improve help-page. Thank you.