Bug 141650 - Need ability to define a default border
Summary: Need ability to define a default border
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: LibreOffice (show other bugs)
(earliest affected) release
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
Depends on:
Reported: 2021-04-12 15:22 UTC by Peter Lairo
Modified: 2021-04-13 13:52 UTC (History)
2 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:

Screenshot of what we want (105.11 KB, image/jpeg)
2021-04-12 15:24 UTC, Peter Lairo
Screenshot of what nobody needs (129.80 KB, image/jpeg)
2021-04-12 15:24 UTC, Peter Lairo
Screenshot showing how Excel 2007 displays borders of different weights. (12.67 KB, image/png)
2021-04-13 03:17 UTC, prokras

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Description Peter Lairo 2021-04-12 15:22:59 UTC
Need ability to define DEFAULT border styles (color, width, Synchronize, etc.) that are INITIALLY presented when the user opens the Writer: Table Properties / Border (Calc: Format Cells / Border) dialog (Screenshots coming...).

Steps to Reproduce:
This request affects all LO programs that have cell borders (Writer, Calc, Draw, Impress). 

STR (Writer):

1. open a new Writer document
2. create a table of at e.g. 4x4 cells
3. select at least 2x2 cells
4. select Table / Properties, and the "Borders" tab.
5. look at all the PRESET settings (black, 0.05 pt, etc.)

Actual Results:
Actual Results:

The INITIALLY presented settings (black, 0.05 pt", Synchronized) are not necessarily what the user usually wants.

Expected Results:
Expected Results:

The INITIALLY presented settings (black, 0.05 pt", Synchronized) should be user-configurable (e.g.: blue, 2.00 pt, NOT Synchronized).

Reproducible: Always

User Profile Reset: No

Additional Info:
Other Information:

When we create a new or open an existing LO Document (Calc, and, ideally, Writer, Draw, etc.), select cells, and want to create a border (CTRL+1, Tab: Borders), we would like the INITIALLY PRESENTED Border Width (and ideally, all other Border settings too) to be something we have PREVIOUSLY defined as a DEFAULT.

Reason: The current default setting (black, thin line) does not satisfy the more aesthetically oriented users among us. We are forced to adjust these settings EVERY time. I, for example, would like to have color "Blue" and width "2 pt" as the default for all my future documents (and, FWIW, "Synchronize" to be "OFF").

What we do NOT need (at all) is the current ability (in e.g. Calc) to edit the default template and to set the Background, Border Line Style, and Border Color of a SELECTED SET of cells for ALL future new documents. That's just silly.
Comment 1 Peter Lairo 2021-04-12 15:24:07 UTC
Created attachment 171129 [details]
Screenshot of what we want
Comment 2 Peter Lairo 2021-04-12 15:24:46 UTC
Created attachment 171130 [details]
Screenshot of what nobody needs
Comment 3 V Stuart Foote 2021-04-12 19:30:15 UTC
Any reason not to work with a document template which is the intended work flow for highly customized "decorations" and styles?
Comment 4 prokras 2021-04-13 03:14:11 UTC
Peter was gracious enough to link to this submission while posting about the same issue in OpenOffice.  So I'll add my $.02 here as well.  Here is my use case for Calc, and why I've wanted this issue addressed for so long. My situation cannot possibly be that unique:

So, I work with spreadsheets pretty much all day long.  And many of these get sent to clients for their decision-making, their reports, or for their records.  Therefore, interoperability with other spreadsheet applications is of critical importance.  Of course, with the vast VAST majority of my clients, the spreadsheet application they are using is Excel.  The #1 reason I switched from OOo to LO years ago was because it offered better interoperability with Excel at that time.

When I prepare a spreadsheet, I want it to be clearly readable, and I expect that what I see on my screen is a reasonable approximation of what another user will see on theirs.  When it comes to .05pt borders, it looks nothing alike in Excel vs Calc.

When I send clients a spreadsheet full of 0.05pt borders, what they see in Excel are dotted lines that are barely visible against the gray cell boundary lines.  The attached screenshot is of Excel 2007, the last version of Excel I have a license for.  It looks even worse in newer versions.

Excel's borders default to 0.75pt so when clients send me a spreadsheet, they look just fine.  In Calc, 0.05pt borders used to look exactly the same as 0.75pt borders (I believe as of version 7.0.x this is no longer the case).  I had to check every border I draw on the spreadsheet, or there would be no way to know if that border had a weight of .05pt or .75pt. Then I would get clients wondering why the spreadsheet looks funky unless I remember to adjust all the borders.

Fortunately, LO has OOo beat here as well.  If I go into the Format Cells dialog, it does indeed default to 0.75pt.  Kudos!  However, if I use the toolbar button to apply a border, it still defaults to 0.05pt.  And as far as I know, there's no way to change the weight of the border that the toolbar button applies.  So I still need to remember every time I want to draw a border to NOT use the toolbar button and to always use the dialog instead.

A while back I had an opportunity to get an Office 365 subscription at no cost to me and I jumped on it.  For years, nearly every spreadsheet that I would give to a client was created or edited in Excel and I nearly stopped using Calc altogether for professional work, even though I greatly prefer the LO interface.

I no longer have that subscription.  I now use Excel 2007 rather than Calc for most things I give to clients, other than quick edits.

So, yes, there are certainly use cases for wanting to be able to set one's own default border, besides one's own aesthetic tastes.  There could be organizational branding at state, for example.  In short, I agree that this would be a really useful feature for some people.

Also, there is absolutely zero reason why the toolbar button should default to applying a border with a weight of 0.05pt.
Comment 5 prokras 2021-04-13 03:17:00 UTC
Created attachment 171141 [details]
Screenshot showing how Excel 2007 displays borders of different weights.

How Excel displays different border weights, to contrast with how Calc displays borders of .05pt and .75pt.  Highlighting a potential interoperability issue.
Comment 6 V Stuart Foote 2021-04-13 13:44:44 UTC
(In reply to prokras from comment #4)

See comment 3
Comment 7 Peter Lairo 2021-04-13 13:52:54 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #3)
> Any reason not to work with a document template which is the intended work
> flow for highly customized "decorations" and styles?

It currently cannot be done with templates. See comment #0 (Description, last paragraph).