Bug 147899 - Borders: Allow Shadow Style Distance to be less than than 0.1 cm (current default) or change Default to Point
Summary: Borders: Allow Shadow Style Distance to be less than than 0.1 cm (current def...
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
unspecified
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: Writer-Styles-Character
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2022-03-10 11:00 UTC by R. Green
Modified: 2022-03-25 17:03 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
Screencast (239.76 KB, image/gif)
2022-03-25 14:09 UTC, Heiko Tietze
Details
MS Word Shadow Distance in Points (9.96 KB, image/png)
2022-03-25 16:05 UTC, Luke
Details

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Description R. Green 2022-03-10 11:00:19 UTC
Version: 7.1.5.2 / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 85f04e9f809797b8199d13c421bd8a2b025d52b5
CPU threads: 2; OS: Linux 5.4; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3
Locale: en-GB (en_GB.UTF-8); UI: en-GB
Calc: threaded

The "Shadow Style" option in the "Borders" tab (Paragraph and Character styles) needs to have a minimum setting for "Distance" less than 0.1cm. IME, this is too unsubtle for some uses.

DEMONSTRATION

1. Highlight a word in text (12pt TNR), right-click and choose "Character > Character"
2. Select "Set all four borders", Shadow Position to bottom right, and the minimum shadow distance of 0.1cm.
3. OK (no "Apply"?).

The minimum setting for the shadow is too wide in this instance. A tighter shadow would be more appropriate to give a Button-like effect.

SUGGESTION: Allow the user to set shadow distance less than 0.1 cm.
Comment 1 Dieter 2022-03-24 13:05:17 UTC
Testes with

Version: 7.3.1.3 (x64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: a69ca51ded25f3eefd52d7bf9a5fad8c90b87951
CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 19044; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win
Locale: de-DE (de_DE); UI: en-GB
Calc: CL

and I agree a setting les 0,1cm should be possible

=> NEW, but let's also ask design-team, because it's an enhancement.

BTW:
I don't understand, why it is called "Distance", if it determines the width of the shadow (see [1]). In fact it lokks to me, that it determines distance (from left margin) and width of the shadow, but not sure for 100%.


[1] https://help.libreoffice.org/7.4/en-GB/text/shared/01/05030500.html?System=WIN&DbPAR=WRITER&HID=cui/ui/borderpage/BorderPage#bm_id3150756
Comment 2 Regina Henschel 2022-03-24 14:13:34 UTC
It is an UI problem. LO is able to render a smaller distance, if such is set in the file source.
Comment 3 Heiko Tietze 2022-03-25 07:45:28 UTC
Smallest number that can be entered manually is 0.01cm if Tools > Options > Writer > Units is set to centimetre. With millimetre I can go down to 0.02mm (not sure this value is effective since the spin edit allows steps of 0.5), and with point the minimum is 10.

| Version: 7.3.1.3 / LibreOffice Community; VCL: kf5 (cairo+xcb)

Adding more digits as a measure for similar issue at bug 101217 was a mistake, see bug 144247. The solution is to me to allow different units per control, as requested at bug 72662.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 72662 ***
Comment 4 Dieter 2022-03-25 13:55:05 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3)
> Smallest number that can be entered manually is 0.01cm if Tools > Options >
> Writer > Units is set to centimetre.

That's true (Tools -> Options -> LibreOffice Writer -> General -> Settings) , but shadow has always width of 0,1 cm and if you reopen dialog it shows 0,1cm. So a value less than 0,1 cm is not accepted. 
=> Status back to NEW
Comment 5 Heiko Tietze 2022-03-25 14:09:13 UTC
Created attachment 179103 [details]
Screencast

(In reply to Dieter from comment #4)
> ... but shadow has always width of 0,1 cm and if you reopen dialog...

Cannot confirm
Comment 6 Dieter 2022-03-25 14:55:05 UTC
Heiko, waht Info do you need?

I've tested with master and got the same result

Version: 7.4.0.0.alpha0+ (x64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 51fb84829afbc1c0957fd1a489085613ad199f1a
CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 19044; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win
Locale: de-DE (de_DE); UI: en-GB
Calc: CL

@R. Green, could you please also test?
Comment 7 Luke 2022-03-25 16:05:55 UTC
Created attachment 179106 [details]
MS Word Shadow Distance in Points

This is another case of using the wrong units. Both Word and Word Perfect use the natural unit of point for Shadow Distance. In typography, the traditional unit is the point.

Switching to that not only makes sense for all professional users, but also would follow the industry standard. Finally it would fix this issue of forcing a user to switch to mm as it's the only other unit (although non-standard) that makes sense in this use case.
Comment 8 Heiko Tietze 2022-03-25 16:22:12 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3)
> Smallest number that can be entered manually is 0.01cm...
> ... The solution is to me to allow different units per control, as requested at bug 72662.

Don't see why this needs to be an extra ticket.
Comment 9 Luke 2022-03-25 17:03:15 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8)
> (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3)
> Don't see why this needs to be an extra ticket.

Only if you fix this by a overly complex workaround. Following the industry standard of using a point, like Word and Word Prefect would eliminate the need for the user to manually manage the complexity of changing units. 

Why shift this burden to the User? Why not use the industry standard unit here? We are doing it wrong. As a result it creates problems for the user that don't exist in other productivity suites. Change the unit to point. Don't force the user to juggle units that don't make sense for the measurement.