Bug 148728 - Should Format -> Character/ Paragraph entry's not be called Paragraph/Character Direct Formatting
Summary: Should Format -> Character/ Paragraph entry's not be called Paragraph/Charact...
Status: RESOLVED NOTABUG
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: UI (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
7.4.0.0 alpha0+
Hardware: All All
: low trivial
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: needsUXEval
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2022-04-22 15:11 UTC by Telesto
Modified: 2022-04-25 13:36 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

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Crash report or crash signature:


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Description Telesto 2022-04-22 15:11:01 UTC
Description:
Should Format -> Character & Paragraph not be called Paragraph/Character Direct Formatting

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Open Writer.
2. Type something
3. Format -> Paragraph
4. Alignment tab -> Center -> Press OK
5. Check style inspector..  notice Df is applied

6. Right Click a style in the sidebar deck styles and click modify.. notice the caption being Paragraph Style

Actual Results:
Inserts DF formatting, but the menu entry is called Character/Paragraph as is the dialog title itself

Expected Results:
The distinction between DF and styles is hammered on.. but dialogs are not helping to grasp the distinction, IMHO


Reproducible: Always


User Profile Reset: No



Additional Info:
Version: 7.4.0.0.alpha0+ (x64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 4659fc2f0a7223a89446edff0b77e58758b5edf5
CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 6.3 Build 9600; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win
Locale: en-US (nl_NL); UI: en-US
Calc: CL Jumbo
Comment 1 Timur 2022-04-23 07:06:29 UTC
Let's not over complicate. 
If someone doesn't understand the difference between styles and DF, calling DF will not help.
Comment 2 Telesto 2022-04-23 07:43:44 UTC
(In reply to Timur from comment #1)
> Let's not over complicate. 
> If someone doesn't understand the difference between styles and DF, calling
> DF will not help.

If you modify a style a PS style or introduce a new style, the caption of the dialog will be Paragraph Style: Style name

The dialog for Paragraph... will be Paragraph. 

A) If it where that obvious, you could call the Paragraph Styles dialog Paragraph. You are in the styles deck, so it would be a style anyhow.

B) If you call the dialog Paragraph Direct Formatting people might use Google :-). What do the mean by "Direct Formatting?"

--

It's surely a detail..
Comment 3 Heiko Tietze 2022-04-25 09:08:27 UTC
You are right, formatting the paragraph is applied directly on top of the style. But I also agree with Timur, renaming it to Format > Direct Paragraph Format, or the like, confuses the users and wont help to understand the concept.

The dialog name is a different question. Also not worth the effort, IMO.

Mike, what do you think?
Comment 4 Mike Kaganski 2022-04-25 09:17:14 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3)

I see that comment 2 is confused/misguided. And nothing needs any change.

(In reply to Telesto from comment #2)
> If you modify a style a PS style or introduce a new style, the caption of
> the dialog will be Paragraph Style: Style name
> 
> The dialog for Paragraph... will be Paragraph. 
> 
> A) If it where that obvious, you could call the Paragraph Styles dialog
> Paragraph. You are in the styles deck, so it would be a style anyhow.

Completely wrong. The two different captions reflect *precisely* what is being edited.

* There is an object named "paragraph style", and that is *not* a paragraph, but a named set of properties that *may* be applied to *any* paragraph; so when you edit that *paragraph style* object, it is plain wrong to name the dialog simply "Paragraph": it would mean you edit something different than you in fact are editing.

* There is an object named "Paragraph". It represents a specific piece of text in the document. It has own properties, among them: (a) style name; (b) everything else. Whenever you assign a style to a paragraph, you define that paragraph's specific direct property (a); whenever you assign font to a paragraph, you assign another direct property (one of (b))... So when you edit properties of paragraph, you have the dialog named "Paragraph".
Comment 5 Timur 2022-04-25 10:39:27 UTC
I guess we may close this.
Comment 6 Telesto 2022-04-25 13:29:38 UTC
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #4)
> * There is an object named "Paragraph". It represents a specific piece of
> text in the document. 

Check

> It has own properties, among them: (a) style name; (b)
> everything else. 

Check 

> Whenever you assign a style to a paragraph, you define that
> paragraph's specific direct property (a); whenever you assign font to a
> paragraph, you assign another direct property (one of (b))... 

Check 

> So when you edit properties of paragraph, you have the dialog named "Paragraph".

You're right if you approach the menu entry from the perspective that the dialog being about a paragraph, and that's why it called paragraph.

---

I approach differently and have tendency to include what it 'does'. The paragraph dialog has as object a "specific piece of text in the document". The dialog applies Direct Formatting to an Paragraph (a specific piece of text in the document.) 

Also observe the following:

1. Open Writer
2. Press Right Click
3. Notice Entry Character & Paragraph 
4. Expand one of those
5. To one is for Paragraph' Paragraph.. (DF)
6. Below the separator line there a presets for formatting. In casu these are Paragraph Styles, but these could have been Paragraph DF presets. 

Offtopic comment: I would actually more or less expect Paragraph DF presets compared to Paragraph DF styles if have paragraph containing 'hello world' and select only world and right right click you expect to 'style' affect that specific range but well this is not the case with Paragraph Styles (those are about the full paragraph). but technically outside the scope here)

7. The last entry is 'Edit Style'. 

Offtopic comment: If you right click within a paragraph or select a range of text followed by right click you expect 'Edit Styles' to affect that specific range ('this paragraph or this select, I would). However you're actually editing the style document wide.. (but technically outside the scope here)

--

In my perception paragraph being used used multiple contexts:
1) Paragraph  "the specific piece of text in the document".
2) Paragraph as category ((hypernym) contain the settings regarding a Paragraph
Paragraph Style & Paragraph ... (Paragraph DF) (see context menu)
3) Paragraph.. as name for an specific dialog regarding a paragraph.  It opens a Paragraph DF dialog. So you apply Paragraph DF to an Paragraph. 

Also if you have a paragraph formatted with a paragraph style, and you open the Format -> Paragraph dialog some users might (initially) expect LibreOffice to be 'smart' and get the 'Paragraph Styles' dialog.
Comment 7 Mike Kaganski 2022-04-25 13:36:26 UTC
(In reply to Telesto from comment #6)
> > So when you edit properties of paragraph, you have the dialog named "Paragraph".
> 
> You're right if you approach the menu entry from the perspective that the
> dialog being about a paragraph, and that's why it called paragraph.
> 
> ---
> 
> I approach differently and

do that wrong.

It does not "applies Direct Formatting to an Paragraph". It *defined settings* of the paragraph. And there are many properties of a paragraph, many of which are not covered by this dialog.

The "direct formatting" is not a correct name for this dialog, no matter how you look at it. Because e.g. character-related properties (DF) of the *paragraph* are not set using this dialog. Only paragraph-related properties of the paragraph. And even then, one direct property is missing - namely, style name itself.