Bug 150461 - Allow deselecting tables in View->Tables
Summary: Allow deselecting tables in View->Tables
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Base (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
unspecified
Hardware: All All
: medium normal
Assignee: Mike Kaganski
URL: https://ask.libreoffice.org/t/cant-cl...
Whiteboard: target:25.2.0
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2022-08-17 15:26 UTC by Mike Kaganski
Modified: 2024-08-19 13:03 UTC (History)
2 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
Comparison of context menu in table unselected vs selected modes (58.22 KB, image/png)
2022-08-17 15:26 UTC, Mike Kaganski
Details

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Description Mike Kaganski 2022-08-17 15:26:42 UTC
Created attachment 181832 [details]
Comparison of context menu in table unselected vs selected modes

In Base's View->Tables, initially no tables are selected. In that mode, the context menu in the table area looks like on the screenshot's upper part.

After you select any table, the context menu looks differently, as shown in the lower part. It indeed looks specific to the selected item (and there is another context menu, shown for multiple selection - but that latter one is out of consideration here).

The problem is, that it is impossible to deselect all tables, to get back to the state and menu shown in the upper part, after a table had been selected. This leads to user's confusion, as described in https://ask.libreoffice.org/t/cant-click-outside-deselect-table-in-base/80738. Pasting of a data would bring the dialog, where one can chose how to paste (allowing to not append, but create a new table), but it's not clear without experimenting, and even then, it would require to change the default selection in the dialog manually.

It seems to be no reason to not allow deselection of a table after initial selection.
Comment 1 Robert Großkopf 2022-08-18 05:41:52 UTC
Could confirm the behavior. Irritates new Base user.

Tested with LO 7.4.0.2 on OpenSUSE 15.3 64bit rpm Linux.
Comment 2 Heiko Tietze 2022-08-18 08:54:38 UTC
We could either auto select the first table or show all entries but disabled.

The point of Select All is not clear to me. Would expect ctrl/shift+click and/or ctrl+A to do the trick. So rather adding another unnecessary command to the menu we could clean it up.
Comment 3 Mike Kaganski 2022-08-18 08:58:07 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #2)
> We could either auto select the first table or show all entries but disabled.

Does this mean that we can *only* discuss these two options? IMO, the status quo (when the non-selected context menu is small and does not include disabled commands) is just fine, the only problem is to enable getting into "nothing selected" state after selection.

> The point of Select All is not clear to me.

This is off-topic here ;)
Comment 4 Heiko Tietze 2022-08-18 09:03:22 UTC
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #3)
> > The point of Select All is not clear to me.
> 
> This is off-topic here ;)

Well if we remove "Select All" the suggested "Unselect All" makes no sense (and it's a very uncommon interaction anyway). What is the multi-selection good for anyway? Besides being able to delete all tables at once, which is rarely a necessity.
Comment 5 Mike Kaganski 2022-08-18 09:27:40 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #4)
> Well if we remove "Select All" the suggested "Unselect All" makes no sense

??? No one proposed a new menu entry at all! The idea is to click outside of tables (in an empty space), and have selection cleared.

> (and it's a very uncommon interaction anyway).

Uh??? When you have an object selected, it is *very* common to select outside to deselect it (without selecting anything else). Think objects in Draw, or files in your favorite graphical file manager (most of them currently, I don't count Midnight Commander-like ones).

> What is the multi-selection good for anyway? Besides being able to delete
> all tables at once, which is rarely a necessity.

This is off-topic here - for the reason outlined above.
Comment 6 Mike Kaganski 2022-08-18 09:28:36 UTC
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #5)
> it is *very* common to select outside to deselect it

Sorry, a typo: "to click outside" was meant.
Comment 7 Heiko Tietze 2022-08-18 09:47:38 UTC
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #5)
> Uh??? When you have an object selected, it is *very* common to select
> outside to deselect it (without selecting anything else).

True for drawing objects but not lists. You don't need to click the word to select an entry. Even MS file explorer keeps the list item active when clicking white space. But the better example of what I mean is the left folders pane.
Comment 8 Mike Kaganski 2022-08-18 10:06:09 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #7)
> (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #5)
> > Uh??? When you have an object selected, it is *very* common to select
> > outside to deselect it (without selecting anything else).
> 
> True for drawing objects but not lists. You don't need to click the word to
> select an entry. Even MS file explorer keeps the list item active when
> clicking white space.

This is playing words. In Windows Explorer, when you click outside of files, the *selection* is cleared, and the context changes (see the context menus there). They keep the focus frame to hint from where navigation would start if user uses arrow keys, but not to keep user guessing if something is selected or not.

> But the better example of what I mean is the left
> folders pane.

Totally wrong. The left Pane defines location context, and you can't be outside of any location at any time in Explorer's world. And the correct analogy in our case is View->Tables, which defines our location. We can't be outside of any such location, too.

But the selected object is what defines on what the user will perform actions. And for any location where there are objects, and you might add more, everything unelected is a common context, familiar to everyone. I am actually puzzled how *that* could be controversial.
Comment 9 Heiko Tietze 2022-08-18 10:47:24 UTC
No objection to unselect on click at the white space if we keep the multi-selection. Still wonder if that's a requirement. But anyway.
Comment 10 Mike Kaganski 2022-08-19 07:34:32 UTC
FTR:

https://ask.libreoffice.org/t/where-do-settings-for-new-page-styles-come-from/80822 shows how people really expect that the context menu actions really act on the *selection*. So (indeed, unrelated to this specific bug) when Styles context menu gives a "New" that is actually unrelated to the selection, it creates problems to users.

I suppose that we either lack this important topic in our HIGs, or ignore it ~everywhere.
Comment 11 QA Administrators 2024-08-19 03:14:58 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 12 Robert Großkopf 2024-08-19 06:31:22 UTC
Buggy behavior is still the same in
Version: 25.2.0.0.alpha0+ (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 59cb37a210675d4269c2fcd48feeffe942538891
CPU threads: 6; OS: Linux 6.4; UI render: default; VCL: kf5 (cairo+xcb)
Locale: de-DE (de_DE.UTF-8); UI: de-DE
Calc: threaded

No possibility to unselect a table (or query, form, report) after there has been selected a table. So the wizard for input new data will start with a selected table every time except when Base has been initialized directly after opening Base.
Comment 13 Commit Notification 2024-08-19 13:03:53 UTC
Mike Kaganski committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/93c17f16b064ded262b23eb8aa60ff58bda18bc7

tdf#150461: deselect all when clicking outside of all list items

It will be available in 25.2.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.