Bug 150804 - The strings "Top of baseline" and "Bottom of baseline" should be changed
Summary: The strings "Top of baseline" and "Bottom of baseline" should be changed
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
7.2.7.2 release
Hardware: All All
: medium minor
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: difficultyBeginner, easyHack, skillDesign, topicDesign
Depends on:
Blocks: Bullets-Numbering-Dialog
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Reported: 2022-09-05 18:07 UTC by Tuomas Hietala
Modified: 2022-09-15 10:44 UTC (History)
5 users (show)

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Crash report or crash signature:
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Description Tuomas Hietala 2022-09-05 18:07:18 UTC
Description:
The strings "Top of baseline" and "Bottom of baseline" are used to align graphic bullet symbols to text baseline. They are a bit confusing, though.

As an imaginary line, a baseline has no thickness and therefore also no "top" or "bottom". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseline_(typography)

For "Top of baseline", the actual meaning is "immediately above the baseline", i.e. the lower edge of the bullet is touching the baseline.  "On top of baseline" would also be correct.

For "Bottom of baseline", the actual meaning is "immediately below the baseline", or "Below baseline" for short.

Steps to Reproduce:
1. In Writer, make a list with graphic bullets.
2. Go to Format - Bullet and Numbering... - Customize tab.
3. Change the alignment from the Alignment drop-down list.

Actual Results:
The strings "Top of baseline" and "Bottom of baseline" are used.

Expected Results:
More descriptive strings are used.


Reproducible: Always


User Profile Reset: No



Additional Info:
Weblate: https://translations.documentfoundation.org/translate/libo_ui-master/cuimessages/en/?checksum=cda5df641accd833

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/translate/libo_ui-master/cuimessages/en/?checksum=bf792265b08f8be5
Comment 1 Heiko Tietze 2022-09-06 13:35:54 UTC
"Top/Center/Bottom of Baseline (etc.)" at the Bullets and Numbering dialog under Customize when Graphics is selected had these labels since dawn of time. No user ever complained. 

Nothing to say against better documentation but I also see no room to explain all options in a tooltip.
Comment 2 Tuomas Hietala 2022-09-08 12:55:25 UTC
Well, 99% of users probably wouldn't notice if these options were removed altogether. But since they exist, I thought the texts could be improved a bit.

The longer explanation was just to clarify my reasoning. "Above baseline" and "Below baseline" would be shorter yet more accurate than "Top of baseline" and "Bottom of baseline".

The rest of the options in the drop-down list don't need to be changed, because AFAICT they are accurate. "Top of baseline"" and "Bottom of baseline" are named similarly to the rest, yet function somewhat differently.

(I'm not sure how the "character" and "line" options differ from each other though, they seem to function the same, i.e. "Top of character" seems to produce the same results as "Top of line".)
Comment 3 Eyal Rozenberg 2022-09-14 19:42:25 UTC
With that drop-down we actually select two different parameters: What entity to align with, and how the entities are aligned. So, it may make sense to split this into two selections. This should make it easier to have options in the drop down lists which are both exact and easy to understand.

As I've said in the design meeting today - the way things stand now, I would want the list items to be clearer and easier to understand at the expense of brevity. So, w.r.t. the baseline, I would hope to see: "Align top with baseline", "Align center with baseline", "Align bottom with baseline". With other entities, it might be something like "Align bottoms with line", "Align centers with line" etc.
Comment 4 Telesto 2022-09-14 21:13:04 UTC
(In reply to Tuomas Hietala from comment #2)
> Well, 99% of users probably wouldn't notice if these options were removed
> altogether. But since they exist, I thought the texts could be improved a
> bit.

Slightly off-topic
I want to mention a compatibility issue. Apply: Bottom of baseline and export the file to DOCX and File-> Reload. Apparently the feature is unsupported by Word. Bug 145951 comment 3. Another argument to drop those settings, IMHO. 

However those are used on multiple dialogs, and actually used.. Insert in image. Anchor it to character, drag it somewhere else.. Bottom of baseline will be set. See again bug 145951
Comment 5 Regina Henschel 2022-09-15 00:12:02 UTC
When trying to find better wording please keep in mind, that the file format has no wording "From bottom".

The setting "From bottom by -10mm to Base line" is written in file markup as style:vertical-pos="from-top" together with svg:y="10mm". It moves the object so, that the top edge of the object is 10mm below the baseline.
Comment 6 Heiko Tietze 2022-09-15 06:12:17 UTC
We discussed the topic in the design meeting. Alternatively to the (good) proposal of Tuomas it could also be "Top/bottom with baseline". It's up to the doer to decide.

Code pointer:
cui/uiconfig/ui/numberingoptionspage.ui

Ultimately we may also split the field into two parts with "top/center/bottom" and "baseline/character/line" (which is not easy hackable anymore).
Comment 7 Heiko Tietze 2022-09-15 06:30:23 UTC
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #5)
> The setting "From bottom by...

"Top of baseline" (and related) are listed as "Alignment" options for unordered lists where the number is "Graphics" or "Linked graphics" (should be title style capitalization).
Comment 8 Regina Henschel 2022-09-15 09:14:43 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #7)
> (In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #5)
> > The setting "From bottom by...
> 
> "Top of baseline" (and related) are listed as "Alignment" options for
> unordered lists where the number is "Graphics" or "Linked graphics" (should
> be title style capitalization).

The position of graphics as list bullets is a problem on its own in regard to markup in file. The setting "Top of baseline" for unordered lists in the UI is written as style:vertical-pos="bottom" style:vertical-rel="baseline" in the markup in file. Whereas for images anchored as character the setting "Top to baseline" in the UI is written as style:vertical-pos="top" style:vertical-rel="baseline".
Comment 9 Heiko Tietze 2022-09-15 10:44:37 UTC
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #8)
> ... Whereas for images anchored as character the setting
> "Top to baseline" in the UI is written as style:vertical-pos="top"
> style:vertical-rel="baseline".

Which supports Eyal's comment 2 to split the alignment into Top/Bottom/Center and Baseline/Character/Line similar we do for graphics. It allows to shift the alignment, uses "Base line" and "Row" instead of Line, and has "From Bottom" as additional option. We use "to" here.

Topic has been discussed recently in bug 148593.