Description: If I set Bullets and Numbering | Position | Numbering followed by to "space", there is no way to set the indent to automatically line up with the start of the text on the first line of the list entry. In order to do so, I have to guess approximately how far the text on the first line starts (i.e., aligned at + the width of a single digit + any text following the number + a space -- tricky business for variable-width fonts) and manually set "indent at" to match that approximation. But that only works as long as the list is set to single-digit numbers. Once the list reaches double-digit numbers -- and, even worse, triple-digit numbers -- this approximation is way off, but as far as I can tell there's no way to change the "indent at" to change based on the number of the list entry (*not* the level, which is not relevant here). The alternative is to use "numbering followed by tab stop", which will definitely line up all the lines of a multiline list entry underneath the start of the text of the entry on the first line, but this doesn't do what I want either, since I still have to choose to align the text with double-digit or triple-digit entries, still have to guess approximately where (aligned at + width of two digits + width of text following the digits + space) will end up, and will still be left with undesirable extra spaces in single-digit entries. A solution would be to add options to "indent at": manual (i.e., the current behavior, where you manually enter a number); "first line text"; "first line number/symbol" (equivalent to manually setting it to the same number as "aligned at"); "tab stop" (equivalent to manually setting it to the same number as "tab stop"). Steps to Reproduce: 1. Open Bullets and Numbering | Position. 2. Set "Numbering followed by" to "space." 3. See that there is no way to set "indent at" to the beginning of the text on the first line. Actual Results: Indent at must be manually set. Expected Results: Indent at should have an option to line up with the beginning of the text on the first line of the entry. Reproducible: Always User Profile Reset: No Additional Info: Version: 7.5.3.2 (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community Build ID: 9f56dff12ba03b9acd7730a5a481eea045e468f3 CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 6.1 Service Pack 1 Build 7601; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win Locale: en-US (en_US); UI: en-US Calc: CL threaded
(In reply to William Friedman from comment #0) > Steps to Reproduce: > 1. Open Bullets and Numbering | Position. > 2. Set "Numbering followed by" to "space." > 3. See that there is no way to set "indent at" to the beginning of the text > on the first line. I confirm the behaviour, but for me it is the expected one. If you want an indent for first line, why do you choose "followed by space" and not "followed by tab". I don't see the use case here. Could you please explain? => NEEDINFO
My apologies for not being clearer. The issue is not the indent of the first line, but the indent of *subsequent* lines. I am requesting an option for each entry of a list to be lined up with the first line of the entry. Here is a visual schematic: 1. alsdjflsjfdlajsfljsdfsa alksjdflsakjflasj 2. a;lkfdsjsa;ljf a;lsjd;lasjfda ... 10. a;lskdjf;lsajf a;lsjdf;lasjf;lasj With the current options, there is no way to create a list that is lined up in this way. Either the first line of an entry is separated from the number (+ subsequent characters, here a period) by a space, and any subsequent lines of the entry are not indented at all (and hence lined up under the entry number) OR subsequent lines are indented to a fixed tab stop, which means: 1) having to guess where the number (+ subsequent characters + space) will be and manually inserting a tab stop at that point AND 2) that text can only be lined up under either single-digit, double-digit, OR triple-digit numbers (because you have to manually choose the indent of subsequent lines). I hope the request is clearer. If not, please let me know what remains unclear and I will try to rephrase.
Bumping this for renewed attention, since I provided the additional information as requested. Thank you.
(In reply to William Friedman from comment #2) > Either the first line of an entry is separated from the number > (+ subsequent characters, here a period) by a space, and any subsequent > lines of the entry are not indented at all (and hence lined up under the > entry number) That's true, but I don't know, if this is possible at all, because with a space you don't have a "starting point" for the text > OR subsequent lines are indented to a fixed tab stop, which > means: 1) having to guess where the number (+ subsequent characters + space) > will be and manually inserting a tab stop at that point No, you define it with the position tab in Bullets and Numbering Dialog (same value of "Tab stop at" and "Indent at") Perhaps it could help, if you add a sample document.
Created attachment 193031 [details] Screenshot demonstrating the problematic behavior In this screenshot (I will attach the odt in the next comment), you can see the issue. The bottom two lists have numbering set to right, and all of the lines for each list entry are aligned with the first line of the entry. The top two lists are the issue. They have numbering alignment left. 1) In the top list, there is a tab stop set to .5 and indent set to .5. This aligns all of the lines for the entries for 1. and 10., but not for 100. But note the excess space between the period after 1 and the beginning of the entry, which is undesirable. 2) In the second list, the problem is even worse. Numbering is followed by a space. The constant indent of .25 means that the the second line of each entry is lined up under the number, rather than under the start of the text of the first entry. Changing the indent would at most get it to approximately line up for either 1, 10, or 100, but not the other two. My enhancement request is to add an option to "indent at" that would line up all subsequent lines of each entry with the start of the text of the first entry. I hope this clarifies the request.
Created attachment 193032 [details] Document used to generate the screenshot in the previous comment
(In reply to William Friedman from comment #2) > I am requesting an option for each entry of a list to be lined up with > the first line of the entry. But isn't it a fact? With default settings, the list aligns up to three digits where you just need to change the tab stop / indent to some larger value. Some work has been done for bug 56258. STR: Lorem+F3, add some breaks having multiple lines in one paragraph, turn this into a list. Of course, if you limit the available space, in your example by aligning the whole list at 0.64cm, the remaining space is not sufficient and you have to "play" with the tab stop position. But it's not really a "tricky business". To be sure that numbers and text align you may use a table where the number goes into the first column and the (plain) text into the second. Not recommendable though.
*** Bug 162133 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #7) > (In reply to William Friedman from comment #2) > > I am requesting an option for each entry of a list to be lined up with > > the first line of the entry. > But isn't it a fact? With default settings, the list aligns up to three > digits where you just need to change the tab stop / indent to some larger > value. Some work has been done for bug 56258. I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "isn't it a fact." Isn't what a fact? And which fact are you referring to? I think my request is being misunderstood. I'm not trying to get all of the entries for every number (1s, 10s, 100s) aligned. That can be accomplished via tab stop. I'm trying to get all of the entries aligned based on the number of digits of the list entry: single digits all aligned with each other, but not with the double and triple digits; double digits all aligned with each other, but not with the triple digits, etc. I'm not sure how to communicate this differently than I have with the screen shot and the textual visual schematic in comment 2. I'll try to reiterate that here: 1. abcdef abcdef 2. abcdef abcdef ... 10. abcdef abcdef 11. abcdef abcdef ... 100. abcdef abcdef Once again, I hope the request is clear: Provide an option to line up all entries with the list # + additional characters. Thank you.
(In reply to William Friedman from comment #9) > I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "isn't it a fact." Isn't what > a fact? And which fact are you referring to? Talking about your request > > > I am requesting an option for each entry of a list to be lined up with > > > the first line of the entry. ...using default content. > I think my request is being misunderstood. > ... > 1. abcdef > abcdef > 10. abcdef > abcdef > 100. abcdef > abcdef In other words a variable tab stop position depending on the number of digits in the level. That might be not so easy since the tab stop thing is not a per item option, AFAIK. What I could imagine is some option to automatic adjust the tab stop for all items depending on the largest number. | 1. abcdef | abcdef | 10. abcdef | abcdef | 100. abcdef | abcdef Which, again, works out of the box up to level 99.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #10) > (In reply to William Friedman from comment #9) > > I think my request is being misunderstood. > > ... > > 1. abcdef > > abcdef > > 10. abcdef > > abcdef > > 100. abcdef > > abcdef > > ... > > What I could imagine is some option to automatic adjust the tab stop for all > items depending on the largest number. > | 1. abcdef > | abcdef > | 10. abcdef > | abcdef > | 100. abcdef > | abcdef I don't know about the original idea of William - I mean, how much is it wanted. I never saw any request similar to this before; so my suspicion is that that is a very niche use case. Of course, I may be wrong; it would be useful to see if there is some significant demand; maybe some widely used style guide? Heiko's idea is *different*; I know for fact that it would be welcome by more users. However, unless William decides to change the request, Heiko's idea must be treated separately.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #10) > In other words a variable tab stop position depending on the number of > digits in the level. That might be not so easy since the tab stop thing is > not a per item option, AFAIK. I supposed one could describe this as a "variable tab stop," and I don't know about the underlying implementation. But actually what I'm asking for is to be able to line up *subsequent lines* of each list entry with the beginning of text of the first line of the entry. This is currently controlled by the Indent At setting, which is a fixed value. In addition to a fixed value, I would want to set Ident At to: under first line. So if I have Bullets and Numbering | Position | Followed by: Space, I would want each subsequent line of the entry lined up underneath the first character following the space. Perhaps this would be easier to understanding using Roman numeral numbering as an example. Right now, Indent At needs to be set to a fixed value. Let's say that I set Followed by to tab stop, and then set indent at to the same tab stop, or set followed by to space and then guess the right indent at to line it up for single character numbers, resulting in something like this: i. abcdef abcdef ii. abcdef abcdef iii. abcdef abcdef iv. abcdef abcdef v. abcdef abcdef All subsequent lines of each entry can only be lined up to the same value, the setting of Indent At. If my suggestion for Indent At would be accepted, then this would like this: i. abcdef abcdef ii. abcdef abcdef iii. abcdef abcdef iv. abcdef abcdef v. abcdef abcdef > What I could imagine is some option to automatic adjust the tab stop for all > items depending on the largest number. > | 1. abcdef > | abcdef > | 10. abcdef > | abcdef > | 100. abcdef > | abcdef > > Which, again, works out of the box up to level 99. This would be, to my mind, a second-best solution, but certainly better than what we have now.
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #11) > I don't know about the original idea of William - I mean, how much is it > wanted. I never saw any request similar to this before; so my suspicion is > that that is a very niche use case. Of course, I may be wrong; it would be > useful to see if there is some significant demand; maybe some widely used > style guide? > > Heiko's idea is *different*; I know for fact that it would be welcome by > more users. However, unless William decides to change the request, Heiko's > idea must be treated separately. I'm not sure on what basis you make assertions of the relative demand for different enhancements. Unless there's random polling of the user base, the absence of a request for a particular enhancement may simply mean that the people who want a particular option haven't spoken up (either because they don't feel that strongly, but would want it, or because they don't use the bug site, etc.). For an example of a style guide that could be understood to require what I'm asking for, see: https://www.stylemanual.gov.au/structuring-content/lists "Rules for sentence lists: ... Align run-over lines with the text, not the bullet or number."
(In reply to William Friedman from comment #13) > I'm not sure on what basis you make assertions of the relative demand for > different enhancements. Unless there's random polling of the user base, the > absence of a request for a particular enhancement may simply mean that the > people who want a particular option haven't spoken up (either because they > don't feel that strongly, but would want it, or because they don't use the > bug site, etc.). For out project specifically, this is not true. Having such a huge userbase, any even moderately wanted feature gets many requests. The usual "people just don't shy" idea doesn't work here. "We have a single request is a synonym" to "it's most likely a niche request". But I don't say just no; I ask you to provide an evidence (or wait until it builds). > For an example of a style guide that could be understood to require what I'm > asking for, see: https://www.stylemanual.gov.au/structuring-content/lists > > "Rules for sentence lists: ... Align run-over lines with the text, not the > bullet or number." I don't read there what you request. To the contrary; my understanding is, that the run-over lines shouldn't depend on how the bullet/number affected the first line.
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #14) > I don't read there what you request. To the contrary; my understanding is, > that the run-over lines shouldn't depend on how the bullet/number affected > the first line. I.e., I read there this: 1. abcdef abcdef ab 10. abcde abcdef ab 100. abcd abcdef ab
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #15) > (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #14) > > I don't read there what you request. To the contrary; my understanding is, > > that the run-over lines shouldn't depend on how the bullet/number affected > > the first line. > > I.e., I read there this: > > 1. abcdef > abcdef ab > > 10. abcde > abcdef ab > > 100. abcd > abcdef ab It depends how you understand the requirement "with the text" and "not the bullet or number." My understanding of "with the text" is "underneath the text of the first line" rather than "underneath the bullet/number." Unfortunately they don't give an example to clarify. But my understanding is at least plausible. I'll try to check the major style guides at some point.
Here's another possible example: https://apastyle.apa.org/style-grammar-guidelines/lists/numbered Note that in the example, the multiline entries all line up underneath the beginning of the text of the first line of each entry. Unfortunately, there is no example of 10. to see if that holds all the way through, nor does "automatically indent the list" tell us what sort of indentation is intended.
(In reply to William Friedman from comment #17) Right; and until it is seen that your specific request is prescribed, I assume that it is possible to do currently - but not automatically - as Heiko shows in comment 10 - you just set up both first line and following lines indents to the same amount large enough for all the numbers in the list; and have gaps, if needed, with the upside of not making an impression that your point 10 is a *subitem* of item 9 (because it would be indented in your proposal, which is a common idiom for nested lists). No need to post all the style guides that do *not* clearly describe your idea.
Many people export to a Microsoft format. Anything that can not be accomplished by MS Word should not be considered for lists. IMHO, for this request to receive any consideration, a functional DOCX file demonstrating the desired result must be provided (and I don't mean a hand-crafted thing, I mean when I modify the paragraph content it demonstrates the desired result).
P.S. If you "right align" the numbering, you will resolve your problem (and create the problem of a ragged left line). 9. point number 9 10. point number 10
The topic was on the agenda of the design meeting. While there is no obvious standard that requests this layout (the example in c17 is limited to number 3), some believe the aesthetics is reasonable. The solution obviously causes a lot of effort since the paragraph attributes needs to become enhanced by this "flexible indentation" flag.