Bug 158864 - Many/most dark mode UI elements have too strong a contrast
Summary: Many/most dark mode UI elements have too strong a contrast
Status: REOPENED
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: UI (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
7.6.4.1 release
Hardware: All Windows (All)
: medium normal
Assignee: Sahil Gautam
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: LibreOffice-Themes Windows-Dark-Mode
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2023-12-26 08:34 UTC by Eyal Rozenberg
Modified: 2024-12-20 08:55 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
LO Writer 7.6.4.1 window, GTK on Linux, in Dark Mode (92.62 KB, image/png)
2023-12-26 08:34 UTC, Eyal Rozenberg
Details
Affinity Designer UI in dark mode (68.39 KB, image/webp)
2023-12-26 08:35 UTC, Eyal Rozenberg
Details
Microsoft VS Code in dark mode (60.57 KB, image/webp)
2023-12-26 08:35 UTC, Eyal Rozenberg
Details
Windows 11 dark mode LibreOffice (95.16 KB, image/png)
2023-12-26 18:47 UTC, John Mills
Details
OnlyOffice with "Dark Interface Theme" and "Dark Document" (99.77 KB, image/png)
2024-01-10 22:09 UTC, Stéphane Guillou (stragu)
Details
sukapura dark theme issue (58.88 KB, image/png)
2024-10-05 20:57 UTC, lprmwae16
Details

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Description Eyal Rozenberg 2023-12-26 08:34:19 UTC
Created attachment 191593 [details]
LO Writer 7.6.4.1 window, GTK on Linux, in Dark Mode

(Stems from a Reddit Thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/18q1r4l/its_2023_and_libreoffices_dark_mode_still_looks/ )

Some users make the complaint that our light markings (letters, lines, icon outlines) in Dark Mode are too lit up, i.e. too white, while in other apps the foreground, non-black elements use light grey, i.e. less contrasting highlights.

Attaching a screenshot of Writer 7.6.4.1 with GTK3 to show what we have now; comparison screenshots to follow.
Comment 1 Eyal Rozenberg 2023-12-26 08:35:12 UTC
Created attachment 191594 [details]
Affinity Designer UI in dark mode
Comment 2 Eyal Rozenberg 2023-12-26 08:35:35 UTC
Created attachment 191595 [details]
Microsoft VS Code in dark mode
Comment 3 V Stuart Foote 2023-12-26 15:14:44 UTC
Hmm, aside from the Win11 only win32 aero.msstyle issues of bug 152534 for highlight of an active selection button, there really is no contrast issue with the dark theme mode support on Windows 10/11.

And 4 additional LibreOffice subreddit links with same observations on the see also.

IMHO => DUPE
Comment 4 John Mills 2023-12-26 18:41:29 UTC
There are too many black panels, you should compare this to the dark mode in OnlyOffice and MSO365 to understand what the original poster is saying.
Comment 5 John Mills 2023-12-26 18:45:15 UTC
I should say that the poster is using Microsoft Windows, where again the UI is inferior to the Linux Version. See screenshot.
Comment 6 John Mills 2023-12-26 18:47:08 UTC
Created attachment 191599 [details]
Windows 11 dark mode LibreOffice

LibreOffice under Windows 11, note the panel colour compared to Linux GTK.
Comment 7 V Stuart Foote 2023-12-26 21:10:42 UTC
(In reply to John Mills from comment #6)
> Created attachment 191599 [details]
> Windows 11 dark mode LibreOffice
> 
> LibreOffice under Windows 11, note the panel colour compared to Linux GTK.

Sorry John, not seeing an issue with panels in the LibreOffice UI. Could you do a side-by-side with comments.
Comment 8 Eyal Rozenberg 2023-12-30 18:12:16 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #7)
> Sorry John, not seeing an issue with panels in the LibreOffice UI. Could you
> do a side-by-side with comments.

Look at the pressed buttons. Agree with John. Marking as Windows for now - if you believe I'm wrong, please change it back.
Comment 9 V Stuart Foote 2023-12-30 21:07:08 UTC
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #8)
> (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #7)
> > Sorry John, not seeing an issue with panels in the LibreOffice UI. Could you
> > do a side-by-side with comments.
> 
> Look at the pressed buttons. Agree with John. Marking as Windows for now -
> if you believe I'm wrong, please change it back.

And that is straight up dupe of bug 152534, Win11 only.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 152534 ***
Comment 10 Eyal Rozenberg 2023-12-30 21:12:04 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #9)
> And that is straight up dupe of bug 152534, Win11 only.

That's one of several aspects people were complaining about at the link. And the dupe does seem to cover it; but have you actually read the list at the link? The dupe marking was too hasty.
Comment 11 John Mills 2023-12-30 22:30:38 UTC
The original author explains his position in the Reddit post. The issue is not just the blue highlighted sections in Windows 11. You really need to see side by side screenshots or use one in a virtual machine.The comparison is made between LibreOffice and other applications on Windows with a comparable dark mode.
Comment 12 V Stuart Foote 2023-12-31 02:09:25 UTC
Reality is that LibreOffice is not and will never use native Windows API WinRT/UWP. Just not going to happen. So ongoing limitations in mapping os/DE themes, e.g. Win10/11 dark mode, will continue.

Bug 152534 is a legitimate issue, though clearly NOB.

Claims of excessive contrast are noise.  In fact LO responds well to all four of the Win11 provided Contrast themes "Aquatic", "Desert", "Dusk", or "Night sky".
Comment 13 Heiko Tietze 2024-01-02 11:07:29 UTC
I can understand the issue, although MSO with appearance set to default system settings behaves similarly. There is no alternative except to overwrite the system colors with user-defined colors. See also bug 125217 and bug 120406, for example.

I suggest to change the summary to something like "Allow to customize system colors" (application colors such as the document background can be tweaked) and to make it an enhancement request. But actually there should be a duplicate.
Comment 14 Eyal Rozenberg 2024-01-02 19:03:43 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #12)
>
> clearly NOB.

When it comes to the prominent aspects of our UI, it is all "our bug", especially when other Windows applications seem to do a better job of it.

> Claims of excessive contrast are noise.

While this is not my personal complaint (I don't dark-mode much), I don't think it's appropriate to be this dismissive. Also, IIANM, the promotional/marketing damage of such stylistic issues is much higher than one might expect.

>  In fact LO responds well to all
> four of the Win11 provided Contrast themes "Aquatic", "Desert", "Dusk", or
> "Night sky".

I've never used any "contrast themes" in Windows 11. But - is the screenshot in attachment 191599 [details] using a special, niche, theme? Is it not what we get by default?
Comment 15 Stéphane Guillou (stragu) 2024-01-10 22:09:38 UTC
Created attachment 191858 [details]
OnlyOffice with "Dark Interface Theme" and "Dark Document"

for another comparison, OnlyOffice. (This screenshot is on Linux but I believe the colours are the same on Windows).
Comment 16 Heiko Tietze 2024-01-11 09:14:34 UTC
(In reply to Stéphane Guillou (stragu) from comment #15)
> This screenshot is on Linux but I believe the colours are the same on Windows.
Meaning OO uses an own color palette ignoring the system theme. Which is not bad per se but should be done in addition. Essentially bug 125217 with bug 120406 (I would include application colors into the app theming).
Comment 17 John Mills 2024-01-11 09:35:21 UTC
(In reply to Stéphane Guillou (stragu) from comment #15)
> Created attachment 191858 [details]
> OnlyOffice with "Dark Interface Theme" and "Dark Document"
> 
> for another comparison, OnlyOffice. (This screenshot is on Linux but I
> believe the colours are the same on Windows).

I think that the interface is identical across all versions as it is html based so the rendering is pretty standard.

I very much like the contrast here, the selection of the dark mode and canvas is also very well done in the initial configuration of OnlyOffice.
Comment 18 lprmwae16 2024-10-05 20:57:06 UTC
Created attachment 196916 [details]
sukapura dark theme issue
Comment 19 lprmwae16 2024-10-05 20:58:24 UTC
I also report an issue with the visibility of libreoffice icons in dark theme mode.

I have attached a screenshot to illustrate this inconvenience.

icon set: sukapura

other data:
Version: 24.8.2.1 (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 480(Build:1)
CPU threads: 12; OS: Linux 6.11; UI render: default; VCL: kf6 (cairo+xcb)
Locale: fr-BE (fr_BE.UTF-8); UI: fr-FR 24.8.2-1 Calc: threaded System: Operating System: EndeavourOS KDE Plasma Version: 6.1.5 KDE Frameworks Version: 6.6.0 Qt Version: 6.7.3 Kernel Version: 6.11.1-arch1-1 (64-bit) Graphics Platform: Wayland

System: 
Operating System: EndeavourOS 
KDE Plasma Version: 6.1.5
KDE Frameworks Version: 6.6.0
Qt Version: 6.7.3
Kernel Version: 6.11.1-arch1-1 (64-bit)
Graphics Platform: Wayland
Comment 20 Heiko Tietze 2024-12-19 08:58:44 UTC
Sahil, resolve fixed or WFM?
Comment 21 Sahil Gautam 2024-12-19 09:19:14 UTC
The contrast is because MS Windows uses black color for window background when using dark mode. This is worsened by the fact that our UI drawing for windows is really *flat* (atleast that's how it looks to me).

The contrast issue can be solved by installing a theme. Theme availability is a different issue, it would improve with time (Rafael is working on a theme creator macro which would make it easy to create new themes).

Marking it as resolved as I think that we have a working solution for the problem.
Comment 22 Sahil Gautam 2024-12-19 09:20:29 UTC
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/25.2#Application_Theming release notes for Application Theming.
Comment 23 Eyal Rozenberg 2024-12-19 19:12:40 UTC
(In reply to Sahil Gautam from comment #21)
> The contrast issue can be solved by installing a theme. ...
> 
> Marking it as resolved as I think that we have a working solution for the
> problem.

As long as that solution is not enabled by default, I would not say this is resolved. Has our default "theme" contrast on Windows changed? If not - suggest keeping this open for now.
Comment 24 Heiko Tietze 2024-12-20 07:23:54 UTC
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #23)
> Has our default "theme" contrast on Windows changed?
We pull the colors from the OS, compare with the file browser for example. If you dislike what Windows offers you can switch to another system theme. And of course you may also change the application theme as Microsoft Office does - and we provide now too.

Your contribution to the project could be an better theme for Windows, ideally with a complete set of colors for light and dark mode for users who let the system change the appearance depending on night time.

=> contrast = NOB, not appealing = fixed/WFM
Comment 25 John Mills 2024-12-20 08:35:32 UTC
I made a new installation of MSO365 yesterday and after the selection dialog to choose to use either ODF or OOXML Microsoft now display a selection dialog that allows 5 different selections for the colour scheme. I thought this was quite striking, I will post a screenshot here when I have opportunity as I did a screen capture. If we ever have a first run "wizard" there might be some learning from this dialog.

I think it was:

System
Dark
Light
Dark Grey
Colourful (coloured header bars)
Comment 26 Eyal Rozenberg 2024-12-20 08:55:05 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #24)

> => not appealing = fixed/WFM

No, this was not fixed, the UI looks just the same as when this bug was filed. The bug is not about users being able to change colors, it was about the colors we use by default.

> We pull the colors from the OS ... contrast = NOB
 
So don't the colors from the OS, on Windows. Other apps don't, likely because of realizing that results in annoying over-contrast. Now that we have theming support, it is relatively easy to do so.

> Your contribution to the project could be an better theme for Windows

Heiko, are you seriously suggesting that the reasont he default theme remains the same is that I have not provided the better theme? Ok, let's reopen and say that it is all my fault.


Users see excessive contrast in dark mode. That's the bug. It remains. Reopening.