Description: Frame boundaries for borderless frames could previously have their visibility toggled with the View > Text Boundaries option. Now they can only be seen when View > Formatting Marks is turned on. This is wrong. Steps to Reproduce: 1.Create a text frame without borders. Actual Results: If Formatting Marks is turned off under the View menu, you can't see the boundaries of the text frame. Expected Results: I would expect to be able to toggle the boundary visibility using View > Text Boundaries! Reproducible: Always User Profile Reset: No Additional Info: I can't imagine why this change was made. Conceptually, frame boundaries and text boundaries are more related than formatting marks. What is even the purpose of the Text Boundaries toggle at this point? By default I want to be able to view frame boundaries without seeing formatting marks. It is much less common to need to view formatting marks.
In fact the View -> Text Boundaries toggle control remains effective. But yes at 24.8 as with other UI elements it has now been linked to the NPC/Formatting marks toggle [1] The "text boundaries" are a formatting/layout mark--not a printable WYSIWYG and they belong with the "Pilcrow" tb button or <Ctrl>+F10. IMHO done correctly now, but not sure it was intentional. =-ref-= [1] https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/166033
Formatting Marks should not affect Text, Table, and Section Boundaries. It works for tables but not text (and frames), and both text and section also depend on this option by having either a frame around the entire object or just some indicator at the corner.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #2) > Formatting Marks should not affect Text, Table, and Section Boundaries. It > works for tables but not text (and frames), and both text and section also > depend on this option by having either a frame around the entire object or > just some indicator at the corner. Heiko, not sure I follow. There is a distinction between text, table, section and frame "boundaries" that are all layout marks, and so *only* visible while authoring, compared to what are styled "borders", that may be coincident to the boundaries, but will actually be published/printed with the document. Clearly all these "boundaries" marks should toggle with other NPC/formatting marks, when set visible from the View menu (though there should probably also be entries on the Tools -> Options panels for respective modules). While the "borders" are not at issue and are otherwise controlled in UI. Do note that the Table "boundaries" remain fully drawn, but probably should shift to corner marks, like the section and page layout marks, when the NPC/formatting marks are toggled.
View > [x] Formatting Marks + Options > Writer > Formatting Aids > Paragraph end => shows the pilcrow View > [x] Formatting Marks + Options > Writer > Formatting Aids > Breaks => shows the soft line break etc. View > [x] Table Boundaries => shows the table (if border is set to none) View > [x] Text Boundaries + View > [x] Formatting Marks => shows text/frame border (also via Application Colors) Boundaries are no formatting marks, and if they were we would have to make this dependency clear by eg. disabling the sub-items.
Created attachment 197173 [details] sample doc, various boundary types to toggle NPC
Created attachment 197175 [details] screen capture of boundary toggle with <Ctrl>+F10 Seems clear they are formatting/layout marks and should toggle with other NPC. The Table boundary should probably go to corner marks. Not sure why but the View -> Section boundaries seems to be non-functional, though the section view does toggle.
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #6) > > Seems clear they are formatting/layout marks and should toggle with other > NPC. > I disagree. Formatting marks are not useful for people like me (in fact, I find them distracting): I only use styles and set Writer to ignore double spaces, spaces and tabs at the beginning/end of line, etc., so there is no need for me to keep an eye on markers for spaces or tabs or all the other stuff gathered under the pilcrow (they are correct the whole time). But I always need to know where the boundaries of borderless objects such a frames, etc, are, if the picture I just dropped is not going beyond the margins, etc. For my user case all those blue dots and arrows are useless most of the time, but the boundaries of objects are always important.
V Stuart, try thinking about it as a human actually using the software in production. I think RGB has described it well. Users absolutely need a way to view boundaries without formatting marks during normal editing. Sometimes it is nice to turn of the boundary visibility to have a cleaner view of how the output result will look. Formatting marks generally only need to be turned on when there is some crazy formatting issue like an invisible formatting character or maybe when you need to check a document for use of tabs versus spaces. Everything was working fine in every previous version of LibreOffice and OpenOffice, now it is broken.