I want to define some paragraphs as a list. But - I need the list items _not_ to have bullets; which is a reasonable thing to require. LO UI doesn't not seem to allow me to do that.
Maybe try a "null" glyph like U+1D159 (MUSICAL SYMBOL NULL NOTEHEAD), That seems to work, but I guess one of the Space glyphs might do? NNBS?
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #0) > ...list items _not_ to have bullets; which is a reasonable thing to require Please elaborate
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #2) > Please elaborate Lists are not just a formatting construct, they have content semantics. Putting multiple paragraphs in a list says something about them (especially, but not only, when processing the document programatically, when using a voice-reader etc). A typical use case of lists without bullets or numbers are lists of recipients or authors of a document, e.g. a letter. One often lists them one below another - without bullets nor numbers. (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #1) > Maybe try a "null" glyph like U+1D159 (MUSICAL SYMBOL NULL NOTEHEAD), > > That seems to work, but I guess one of the Space glyphs might do? NNBS? So, an effectively-null glyph might work visually, but: * It's a hack... * One has to know their way around Unicode to figure that out. Which means, the vast majority of users won't (Also, there's Zero-Width Space, perhaps a better option? Not sure. Still a hack.)
The ODF situation here is interesting: §16.32 says a list is supposed to have either bullets, numbers or images; but one can supposedly create a list (or list style) without providing any of the three ODF elements specifying the use of bullets, numbers or images. So maybe bullet-less lists _are_ supported? Perhaps Regina could shed some light on this. https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.4/csd01/part3-schema/OpenDocument-v1.4-csd01-part3-schema.html#__RefHeading__1416430_253892949
I can see some utility to enhancement of offering the List object but styled without a bullet mark. Wouldn't you want the non-bulleted listing to continue to be handled as a list? So responding to indentation and level as set like any other list. Reasonable approach, to offer 'None' in UI and simply assign ZWSP as the bullet--keeping the rest of the List handling unchanged. Its not a hack, anymore so than changing a bullet currently. We can already create a list with a 'null' glyph. And, U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE (ZWSP) does work fine with coverage across more fonts including Liberation, so better fallback chances cross-platform. Although we could add the ZWSP glyph to OpenSymbol.
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #5) Since there is a cease fire still and I'm in a slightly-less-bad mood, I won't quibble over whether this is an enhancement request or a bug; nor about whether a zero-width bullet is a hack or not (even though I don't agree). I will say that even with zero-width bullet, we would still need to make sure there's no spacing from the paragraph edge to the beginning of the text; and that the mouse-over behavior doesn't get messed up at the beginning of such paragraphs; etc.
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #4) > The ODF situation here is interesting: §16.32 says a list is supposed to > have either bullets, numbers or images; but one can supposedly create a list > (or list style) without providing any of the three ODF elements specifying > the use of bullets, numbers or images. So maybe bullet-less lists _are_ > supported? You can create a list (element <text:list>) without setting a list style. Then an implementation-dependent list style is used. LibreOffice currently uses a bulleted list in such cases. I never would go that way, because it has huge interoperability consequences. A list style is given by the <text:list-style> element. Either of the child elements <text:text:list-level-style-number> or <text:list-level-style-bullet> or <text:list-level-style-image> must exists. Something else is not possible. The bullet character is defined in the `text:bullet-char` attribute of the <text:list-level-style-bullet> element. This attribute is mandatory. That means, that a bullet list without specifying a bullet character is not possible. https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/os/schemas/OpenDocument-v1.3-schema-rng.html#text-list-level-style-bullet-attr But since U+20 SPACE or U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE or any other space character works as "bullet" I see no problem. The use case "programmatically" is not common, thus we can expect an advanced user. And for screen readers, it would need a test, whether they say anything about the bullet character or whether they report only the list level. (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #6) > (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #5) > I will say that even with zero-width bullet, we would still need to make > sure there's no spacing from the paragraph edge to the beginning of the > text; and that the mouse-over behavior doesn't get messed up at the > beginning of such paragraphs; etc. The spacing is not defined by the bullet character, but by the settings in tab "Position". It can be changed there, same as for any other list. I do not support this enhancement request.
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #7) > But since U+20 SPACE or U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE or any other space character > works as "bullet" I see no problem. > ... > I do not support this enhancement request. +1 You can indent any paragraph without attaching a list style.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8) > You can indent any paragraph without attaching a list style. The request is to do the _opposite_ of that, Heiko: Attaching a list style is what's requested - without indenting or bulleting. Actually, I've played a little with the customized list style - and it seems we are a third of the way there already, because one can define a list style which, for some levels, has "Nothing" as the item indicator (i.e. neither number nor bullet nor image); and those paragraphs are still designated as haivng that list style. Which means that this is already semi-implemented... and we would just need, oh, I guess an UNO command, and a fourth button for the choice of listem type, in addition to the three buttons for bulleted, numbered and customized. That button could be off the toolbar by default, so it would not confuse anyone. this is what the FODT looks like: <office:automatic-styles> <style:style style:name="P1" style:family="paragraph" style:parent-style-name="Standard"> <style:text-properties officeooo:rsid="000aa63a" officeooo:paragraph-rsid="000aa63a"/> </style:style> <style:style style:name="P2" style:family="paragraph" style:parent-style-name="Standard" style:ln="Eyal1"> <style:text-properties officeooo:rsid="000aa63a" officeooo:paragraph-rsid="000aa63a"/> </style:style> ... snip... </office:automatic-styles> ... snip... <text:p text:style-name="P1">No list for me</text:p> <text:list text:style-name="Eyal1"> <text:list-item> <text:p text:style-name="P2">Hello</text:p> </text:list-item> <text:list-item> <text:p text:style-name="P2">Second Line</text:p> </text:list-item> <text:list-item> <text:p text:style-name="P2">Third line</text:p> </text:list-item> </text:list> ... snip...