Bug 166251 - SUMIF examples need to be improved
Summary: SUMIF examples need to be improved
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Documentation (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
25.2.2.2 release
Hardware: All All
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard: target:25.8.0
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2025-04-19 10:29 UTC by gmarco
Modified: 2025-04-21 10:45 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
scrshot for Guide (166.13 KB, image/jpeg)
2025-04-19 21:04 UTC, gmarco
Details
scrshot (98.81 KB, image/jpeg)
2025-04-19 21:09 UTC, gmarco
Details

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Description gmarco 2025-04-19 10:29:59 UTC
All examples are incorrect: arguments are separated by "," instead of ";".
The example =SOMMA.SE(A2:A6,"penna*",C2:C6) has a nonsensical description: "Adds the values ​​in area C2:C6 only if the values ​​in the corresponding area A2:A6 contain the letters "penna". Returns 150 because rows A4:A5 do not meet the criterion.", in fact it returns 85.
Comment 1 Buovjaga 2025-04-19 15:52:00 UTC
If I understand correctly, you are talking about an Italian guide book for Calc 25.2? Can you give a link to the book as I can't find it?
Comment 2 gmarco 2025-04-19 21:04:47 UTC
Created attachment 200409 [details]
scrshot for Guide
Comment 3 gmarco 2025-04-19 21:09:10 UTC
Created attachment 200410 [details]
scrshot

Both samples are meaningless because the string "penna" exists and the result is 85.
Comment 4 m_a_riosv 2025-04-19 21:22:35 UTC
Reproducible
https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/fr/text/scalc/01/func_sumif.html?DbPAR=CALC#bm_id3151957

It has ';' as separator in function definition, but has ',' as separator in examples.

If I am not mistaken, all languages accept ';' as separator, it would be better to use it everywhere.
Comment 5 Buovjaga 2025-04-20 06:05:29 UTC
(In reply to gmarco from comment #2)
> Created attachment 200409 [details]
> scrshot for Guide

This is not from a guide book, but from the translation of Help.

While reports can be made about translations, Weblate does accept suggestions even from unregistered users, so making those directly would skip a step: https://translations.documentfoundation.org/projects/libo_help-master/-/it/

For example, I can search with "=SOMMA.SE(A2:A6,"penna*",C2:C6)" and find the relevant string.

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/translate/libo_help-master/textscalc01/it/?checksum=adc691b541dcf043&sort_by=-priority%2Cposition
Comment 6 gmarco 2025-04-20 07:16:08 UTC
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #5)
> (In reply to gmarco from comment #2)
> > Created attachment 200409 [details]
> > scrshot for Guide
> 
> This is not from a guide book, but from the translation of Help.
> 
.....

That is what I can get by going to Help -> LibreOffice Help or pressing F1.
Comment 7 gmarco 2025-04-20 07:24:47 UTC
(In reply to m_a_riosv from comment #4)
> Reproducible
> https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/fr/text/scalc/01/func_sumif.
> html?DbPAR=CALC#bm_id3151957
> 
> It has ';' as separator in function definition, but has ',' as separator in
> examples.
> 
> If I am not mistaken, all languages accept ';' as separator, it would be
> better to use it everywhere.

I would say more precisely: ';' is the universal rule, the ',' or whatever gives "Err:501"
Comment 8 gmarco 2025-04-20 08:01:20 UTC
It seems to me that it is not a problem of translation into a specific language, the reported malfunctions are just in the original English text.
Comment 9 Buovjaga 2025-04-20 15:05:02 UTC
(In reply to gmarco from comment #8)
> It seems to me that it is not a problem of translation into a specific
> language, the reported malfunctions are just in the original English text.

Indeed, they are in the original source: https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/en-US/text/scalc/01/func_sumif.html
Comment 10 Julien Nabet 2025-04-20 15:07:00 UTC
Olivier: I've submitted https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/help/+/184388 on gerrit to change "," into ";" for sumif function.
Comment 11 Commit Notification 2025-04-20 16:30:45 UTC
Julien Nabet committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/help/commit/2487e71ba257e1115eda0cab2d86186845b07239

Related tdf#166251 Use ";" for separator in SUMIF function
Comment 12 gmarco 2025-04-20 17:15:40 UTC
Please, don't forget the 2° and 3° examples too (look at my attachment).
Comment 13 Julien Nabet 2025-04-20 18:59:36 UTC
(In reply to gmarco from comment #12)
> Please, don't forget the 2° and 3° examples too (look at my attachment).

I changed 6 examples in the patch, I don't think I missed some but perhaps I'm wrong?
Comment 14 Buovjaga 2025-04-20 19:04:14 UTC
(In reply to gmarco from comment #0)
> The example =SOMMA.SE(A2:A6,"penna*",C2:C6) has a nonsensical description:
> "Adds the values ​​in area C2:C6 only if the values ​​in the corresponding
> area A2:A6 contain the letters "penna". Returns 150 because rows A4:A5 do
> not meet the criterion.", in fact it returns 85.

What about these problems?
Comment 15 gmarco 2025-04-20 19:40:47 UTC
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #14)
> (In reply to gmarco from comment #0)
> > The example =SOMMA.SE(A2:A6,"penna*",C2:C6) has a nonsensical description:
> > "Adds the values ​​in area C2:C6 only if the values ​​in the corresponding
> > area A2:A6 contain the letters "penna". Returns 150 because rows A4:A5 do
> > not meet the criterion.", in fact it returns 85.
> 
> What about these problems?

"only if the values ​​in the corresponding area A2:A6 contain the letters "penna". Returns 150 because rows A4:A5 do not meet the criterion."
As I said, some nonsense:
- area A2:A6 ... rows A4:A5
- Returns 150 because rows A4:A5 do not meet the criterion: if the criterion is not met why does it return 150? Was it so, it should be 0 !
But the criterion is just satisfied, "penna" is in A3 and corresponds to the value 85 in C3 !
Comment 16 Julien Nabet 2025-04-20 20:57:48 UTC
(In reply to gmarco from comment #15)
> (In reply to Buovjaga from comment #14)
> > (In reply to gmarco from comment #0)
> > > The example =SOMMA.SE(A2:A6,"penna*",C2:C6) has a nonsensical description:
> > > "Adds the values ​​in area C2:C6 only if the values ​​in the corresponding
> > > area A2:A6 contain the letters "penna". Returns 150 because rows A4:A5 do
> > > not meet the criterion.", in fact it returns 85.
> > 
> > What about these problems?
> 
> "only if the values ​​in the corresponding area A2:A6 contain the letters
> "penna". Returns 150 because rows A4:A5 do not meet the criterion."
> As I said, some nonsense:
> - area A2:A6 ... rows A4:A5
> - Returns 150 because rows A4:A5 do not meet the criterion: if the criterion
> is not met why does it return 150? Was it so, it should be 0 !
> But the criterion is just satisfied, "penna" is in A3 and corresponds to the
> value 85 in C3 !

gmarco is right, product names should have been adapted and not only translated.
Indeed, in English,
=SUMIF(A2:A6,"pen*",C2:C6) gives 150 since, we have:
- C2 (65) which is in the same row as "pencil" A2
- C3 (85) which is in the same row as "pen" A3

but in Italian, only A3 "penna" corresponds to the criteria "pen*", so we should have only 85 and not 150.

There's exactly the same problem in French and certainly in other languages.
Comment 17 gmarco 2025-04-21 07:13:43 UTC
(In reply to Julien Nabet from comment #16)
> (In reply to gmarco from comment #15)
> > (In reply to Buovjaga from comment #14)
> > > (In reply to gmarco from comment #0)
> > > > The example =SOMMA.SE(A2:A6,"penna*",C2:C6) has a nonsensical description:
> > > > "Adds the values ​​in area C2:C6 only if the values ​​in the corresponding
> > > > area A2:A6 contain the letters "penna". Returns 150 because rows A4:A5 do
> > > > not meet the criterion.", in fact it returns 85.
> > > 
> > > What about these problems?
> > 
> > "only if the values ​​in the corresponding area A2:A6 contain the letters
> > "penna". Returns 150 because rows A4:A5 do not meet the criterion."
> > As I said, some nonsense:
> > - area A2:A6 ... rows A4:A5
> > - Returns 150 because rows A4:A5 do not meet the criterion: if the criterion
> > is not met why does it return 150? Was it so, it should be 0 !
> > But the criterion is just satisfied, "penna" is in A3 and corresponds to the
> > value 85 in C3 !
> 
> gmarco is right, product names should have been adapted and not only
> translated.
> Indeed, in English,
> =SUMIF(A2:A6,"pen*",C2:C6) gives 150 since, we have:
> - C2 (65) which is in the same row as "pencil" A2
> - C3 (85) which is in the same row as "pen" A3
> 
> but in Italian, only A3 "penna" corresponds to the criteria "pen*", so we
> should have only 85 and not 150.
> 
> There's exactly the same problem in French and certainly in other languages.

VERY GOOD, thanks!!!
Comment 18 Julien Nabet 2025-04-21 10:45:17 UTC
Now that "," have been replaced with ";" there are several steps:
1) helpcontent fixed strings must be present in Weblate
2) translations + adaptation must be done on languages (but no need to wait for all languages to be fixed).
3) synchro from Weblate to translation repository
4) wait for a new LO release including the fix.
I may be wrong but the fixes will be done only from next release 25.8

Sophie/Christian: could you just remind the time needed for step 1?