When you select a range of cells and choose Data > Sort... on the menus, you get the Sort dialog, which has an Options tab, or pane. The options on this tab are very confusing - certainly to the novice user, but also to a more experienced one. * "Include formats" - it is wholly unclear what this means. What are "formats"? Is that the same as "formatting", or something else? What does it mean to "include" things in a sort procedure? How can formatting affect a sort? etc. * "Natural sort" - this is about to change, and discussed in the separate bug 161948; the current state of affairs is confusing because different people have different notions of what "natural" sorting might be, and even to what aspect of sorting it would apply. In fact, this toggle regards the interpretation of string values in cells, and whether, and how, to parse them for numbers; few would guess what it does exactly. * "Copy sort results" - is that in addition to sorting the data? If not, why is this not a radio group with "Sort in place" and "Make sorted copy"? Or two action buttons for the dialog? And - why is this wedged between options regarding the sort order (custom order, natural sort) * What are "boundary rows" w.r.t. sorting? We don't have "boundary rows" in Calc * What does it matter if a row "contains only images" or "only comments"? What would the "inclusion" here even mean? * What is the locale used for? It could be for parsing numbers within strings, but then - why is this control separated from the control(s) regarding parsing strings for numbers?
Created attachment 203136 [details] LO Calc 26.2 Sort Options tab
Just to be clear: One can understand what all of these mean - mostly - when reading the help page. But that should not be necessary. It is perfectly possible to make all of these understandable to the large majority of users without opening the documentation.
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #2) > Just to be clear: One can understand what all of these mean - mostly - when > reading the help page. If a user struggles to understand, for example the checkbox "Copy sort results" with a range picker, I think s/he should consider a different job. No objection to improvements, though. You are welcome to make suggestions.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3) > If a user struggles to understand, for example the checkbox "Copy sort > results" with a range picker, I think s/he should consider a different job. 1. Then you think wrong. I don't understand what's supposed to happen when this is enabled. And if I don't, then a large fraction of users don't, either. 2. What job?
The are quite some list 'problems' squeezed into on report. So as conversation starter fine, but a in depth discussion becomes quickly a mess. Also not totally clear if this being about (a) documentation or (b) labels (c) function of the setting. Also there is not clear alternative presented, but I admit, I fail here too at this point. --- "Include formats": The label is only leaving question marks (not self-explaining). The documentation not helpful either without an concrete example: Preserves the current cell formatting. is quite cryptic "Natural sort": The 'natural' sort is surely not self-explaining without example as given in the documentation . And well the opposite is 'unnatural' sort. It's nothing unnatural about it. It's a normal type of sorting (algorithm) (say within programming), except different from how people expecting to sorting to be. And apparently the 'natural sort' is unnatural to use because it's turned off by default. Also problematic is that the 'natural sort' so foreign that I will keep forgetting the meaning, even after reading the help. "Copy sort results". Agree with the remarks "Boundary rows" No clue what boundary rows are, and documentation explains boundary rows, by using "boundary". It's surely not clear to me what it supposed to do (FWIW: not Calc Expert) "Locale" It has not much of a purpose, it seems. It activates the 'Options' drop down in very limited number of cases, it seems (like Japanese). Sorting rule appears to pre-defined in most cases, without any control. Except picking a different locale, compared to actual locale. How it applies, or if it related to natural sort, no clue..
(In reply to Telesto from comment #5) > Also not totally clear if this being about (a) documentation > or (b) labels (c) function of the setting. Let me clarify and say this bug is about the UI for the current functionality: labels, sectioning, titles, relative arrangement of controls, choice of widgets. I am not suggesting any change of functionality. I notice you've made some comments regarding the documentation - which are valid, for sure, but I'm focusing on point (b) here. > And apparently the 'natural sort' is unnatural to use because it's turned > off by default. It's natural to be un-natural :-( > "Boundary rows" > No clue what boundary rows are, and documentation explains boundary rows, by > using "boundary". It's surely not clear to me what it supposed to do (FWIW: > not Calc Expert) IIANM, those are empty rows at the top and bottom of the range. The issue is: When you select a large range with just some non-empty cells - do you want to consider them as "really" part of the range, or just some boundary, or slack, which you can ignore. > "Locale" > It has not much of a purpose, it seems. Shouldn't it affect the parsing logic for numbers in strings? The decimal separator, the digit group separator - those can differ based on locale. That's what I assumed this does.
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #6) > > "Locale" > > It has not much of a purpose, it seems. > > Shouldn't it affect the parsing logic for numbers in strings? The decimal > separator, the digit group separator - those can differ based on locale. > That's what I assumed this does. I really have no idea. It seems likely. However it's bit weird of a dialog picking a certain sorting rule indirectly based on locale. As if each locale having separate set of specific rules. Next to the fact that I have any feedback what the actual entail (black box). Not in the dialog nor in the documentation I get the impression that selecting a locale defines enables a additional rule: * Dutch -> No additional sorting rule * Zulu (and many other languages)-> Enabled the Alphanumeric 'option' at least the disabled option drop down suggests this * Japanese -> lets the user pick one of the possible rules But again your interpretation is as valid. So picking locale might affect: decimal separator, the digit group separator [Haven't toyed around to try it out]
(In reply to Telesto from comment #5) > "Locale" > It has not much of a purpose, it seems. It activates the 'Options' drop down > in very limited number of cases, it seems (like Japanese). Sorting rule > appears to pre-defined in most cases, without any control. Except picking a > different locale, compared to actual locale. How it applies, or if it > related to natural sort, no clue.. "locale" includes a set of sorting rules. Among them are decimal separator, calendar, handling of umlauts and accents. Some locals have more than on official rule, e.g. German has two rules in its DIN 5007. Even the order of identical words might depend on locale, see bug 168225 for example. Sorting depends on locale, not on the language of the cell content or language settings in cell style. If you do not choose a locale in the Sort 'dialog', then the global setting from Tools > Options > Languages and Locale is used. The 'Sort' dialog has an entry of form "Default - (...)" in that case. The global setting has the disadvantage, that it is only stored in your user profile. So when you have created a sorting with German locale and someone in USA opens the document then sorting might be different. When you choose the locale in the 'Sort' dialog, this information is stored in the document so that both persons use the same locale for sorting. I have no idea, how such information can be condensed to a label. It is too long even for a tooltip.