Created attachment 203184 [details] Solicitation bar in LO Calc 25.8 first startup When you install a new version of LO and open the app, on the first run you'll get a bar at the top, which looks like in the attached screenshot. For an ascii graphic, it's: (i) Help us make LibreOffice even better [Get Involved] This is bad/inadequate in my opinion, for several reasons. I will not go into potential drastic changes, like a pop-up dialog, or an extra document, or window pane etc. - just a solicitation bar: 1. Doesn't explicitly suggest donating to LibreOffice. ------------------------------------------------------ The suggestion to either "help us" or "get involved" is not a request for donations. Some people feel they can "help out", but others, and perhaps most people, don't feel able to help as contributors, but may be willing to donate money - which we don't ask them to. One might quip that "donation is a form of helping or involvement", but only some minority of people would think that. At least some place needs to have an explicit solicitation for money. It could be the label, it could be the button, it could be a second button. 2. Bar design discourages action. --------------------------------- The (i) and the muted blue coloring suggests the bar content is merely _informational_, and does not actually requires or even encourages you to do anything. Yes, the text may suggest otherwise, but the visual cue has its effect. 3. The text paradoxically discourages action. --------------------------------------------- The text says "Help us make LibreOffice even better!" - implying that that it has already been made better. Whether we believe that is the case or not, that dampens the initial instinct to act or help. Regardless of other changes to the text or design, that should have been "Help us make LibreOffice better!" 4. Button is far from the text ------------------------------ (You see this even in the screenshot, but it's more prominent on the typically wide screens of today.) You cannot, nor are encouraged to, click the (i) sign; and you cannot, nor are you encouraged to, click the "Please help us text". Your eyes are focused on them, and there's nothing to do. Now, it's true that at the right edge there's a button. But it's far away, so it is perceived as less important, appropriate to ignore. 5. There should be different action buttons -------------------------------------------- At the very least, there should be a distinct button for donating and another button for volunteering/participating/helping out. 6. The wording "Get Involved" is borderline deterring. ------------------------------------------------------ Consider for the dictionary definition of "involved" at dictionary.com [1]; it is: > 1. very intricate or complex. *an involved reply.* > 2. implicated. *involved in crime.* > 3. concerned in some affair, especially in a way likely to cause danger or unpleasantness. *I didn't call the police because I didn't want to get involved.* > 4. committed or engaged, as in a political cause or artistic movement. *The civil rights demonstration attracted the involved young people of the area.* the first one is neutral-or-negative, the next two are markedly negative, and only the fourth sense is positive. That is _not_ the term we want to us, even if we accurately fit that fourth definition. The situation is rather similar if you look at other dictionaries, e.g. Merriam-Webster [2]. 7. No sense of urgency or need. -------------------------------- Nothing in the text indicates how user donations are essential to the project; or that the project is massively under-funded considering the huge workload. We don't use phrases like "need you" or "keep alive" or "struggle", nor "critical" or "crucial" or "necessary" etc. - and "help" is used as a verb rather than a noun. 8. No indication why participation and/or donation is important --------------------------------------------------------------- The bar does not say, nor does it (ostensibly) link to a statement regarding why it is important for users to donate money or to participate otherwise. I realize that may not be an easy goal to achieve in a narrow bar - but it is what it is. This least may not be exhaustive... [1] : https://www.dictionary.com/browse/involved [2] : https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/involved
Created attachment 203185 [details] Thunderbird 143 first run pane For an comparison - albeit somewhat unfair - cf. the pane Thunderbird opens up when you first run it after installing (and maybe upgrading to?) a new version. Notes: * Says "Thank you" - indicating how the user themselves, or many other users, have already helped, while asking for help again. So, acknowledgement + reinforcement + suggestion of a steady habit. * Dramatic - bird flying, excited, sunrise, finding your way home, contrast and variation of colors (not garish though). * Big large donate button in the middle. * Has explanatory text. * Says why it is important to donate. * Indicates need, necessity, rather than extra luxury: "Keeping Thunderbird alive", not "make it even better".
Created attachment 203186 [details] Thunderbird 143 main window 'empty' pane solicitation Another unfair example; TB's main window starts out with a large 'empty' area which can be used for solicitation, not just a narrow bar. Still, Notes: * Explicit solicitation of donation * ... in fact, two of them: corner and center * Separate buttons for participation and for donatio * Presents the balance, or the cycle, between giving and receiving: "Participate" vis-a-vis "Get Help". * Explains why donation is important * Presents the user as the originator of Thunderbird (although this is at least somewhat disingenuous and dismissive of the role of developers; but it likely fosters donation) * Emphasizes positive feelings with the heart sign (is that useful to do, or too "mushy"? I don't know.). FYI: our start center "donate" button actually uses the same graphic as the "Get Help" heart, not "Donate" heart. * Dramtic effect achieved with high-contrast lines, centering
Not a fan, re-using the alert bar framework remains sufficient. -1
The Get-Involved toolbar is not triggered by new versions, actually it is suppressed if other infobars are shown, but shows up every 180 days. It was requested as such by the marketing team and has proven to be efficient for donations. => -1 (please discuss marketing topics somewhere else)
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #3) > Not a fan Of what? > re-using the alert bar framework remains sufficient. Nothing in this bug claims that what needs to be done is splitting the relevant code from the "alert bar". One could very well widen the capabilities of the alert bar, not to mention the possible changes that don't even require that.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #4) > it... has proven to be efficient for donations. => -1 You must be joking, Heiko! For a comparison, let's take 2023 for which we have financial data for both Thuderbird [1] and TDF/LO (our annual report 2023): LibreOffice Thunderbird Daily Active Users 50M (estimate) 9M (on 2023-12-20) Donors ?? 300K Annual donation revenue <= 1.3M EUR 7.85M EUR (= 8.6M USD) normalizing by number of active users only, we would have seen 43.6M EUR of revenue in 2023. And even if you wanted to adjust that further in our "benefit", by making assumptions regarding user wealth and available money which might go to donations, we were still massively, massively failing in donation raising. > The Get-Involved toolbar is not triggered by new versions, actually it is > suppressed if other infobars are shown, but shows up every 180 days. Ok, rephrased title > It was > requested as such by the marketing team I very much doubt this is what the product promotion team requested, I have never heard anything but complaints. [1] : https://blog.thunderbird.net/2024/10/thunderbird-annual-report-2023-2024/
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #0) > Created attachment 203184 [details] > Solicitation bar in LO Calc 25.8 first startup > > When you install a new version of LO and open the app, on the first run > you'll get a bar at the top, which looks like in the attached screenshot. > > For an ascii graphic, it's: > > (i) Help us make LibreOffice even better [Get > Involved] > > This is bad/inadequate in my opinion, for several reasons. I will not go > into potential drastic changes, like a pop-up dialog, or an extra document, > or window pane etc. - just a solicitation bar: > > 1. Doesn't explicitly suggest donating to LibreOffice. > ------------------------------------------------------ > > The suggestion to either "help us" or "get involved" is not a request for > donations. Some people feel they can "help out", but others, and perhaps > most people, don't feel able to help as contributors, but may be willing to > donate money - which we don't ask them to. One might quip that "donation is > a form of helping or involvement", but only some minority of people would > think that. At least some place needs to have an explicit solicitation for > money. It could be the label, it could be the button, it could be a second > button. Agreed, it's way too abstract as a request for a (financial) donation. > > 2. Bar design discourages action. > --------------------------------- > > The (i) and the muted blue coloring suggests the bar content is merely > _informational_, and does not actually requires or even encourages you to do > anything. Yes, the text may suggest otherwise, but the visual cue has its > effect. > Feels prominent enough for me. But yes, it's presented as an information tooltip > 3. The text paradoxically discourages action. > --------------------------------------------- > > The text says "Help us make LibreOffice even better!" - implying that that > it has already been made better. Whether we believe that is the case or not, > that dampens the initial instinct to act or help. Regardless of other > changes to the text or design, that should have been "Help us make > LibreOffice better!" > Removing 'even' is surely an improvement. I personally prefer to avoid 'better'. I somewhat associating it with getting better from being sick. More neutral would be, IMHO: Help improve LibreOffice. Donate | Get Involved > 4. Button is far from the text > ------------------------------ > > (You see this even in the screenshot, but it's more prominent on the > typically wide screens of today.) You cannot, nor are encouraged to, click > the (i) sign; and you cannot, nor are you encouraged to, click the "Please > help us text". Your eyes are focused on them, and there's nothing to do. > Now, it's true that at the right edge there's a button. But it's far away, > so it is perceived as less important, appropriate to ignore. There is quite a distance, I admit. However is quite UI consistent and well it's next to the X > > 5. There should be different action buttons > -------------------------------------------- > > At the very least, there should be a distinct button for donating and > another button for volunteering/participating/helping out. Yes > > 6. The wording "Get Involved" is borderline deterring. > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Consider for the dictionary definition of "involved" at dictionary.com [1]; > it is: > > > 1. very intricate or complex. *an involved reply.* > > 2. implicated. *involved in crime.* > > 3. concerned in some affair, especially in a way likely to cause danger or unpleasantness. *I didn't call the police because I didn't want to get involved.* > > 4. committed or engaged, as in a political cause or artistic movement. *The civil rights demonstration attracted the involved young people of the area.* > > the first one is neutral-or-negative, the next two are markedly negative, > and only the fourth sense is positive. That is _not_ the term we want to us, > even if we accurately fit that fourth definition. > > The situation is rather similar if you look at other dictionaries, e.g. > Merriam-Webster [2]. Maybe something like: Contribute > 7. No sense of urgency or need. > -------------------------------- > > Nothing in the text indicates how user donations are essential to the > project; or that the project is massively under-funded considering the huge > workload. We don't use phrases like "need you" or "keep alive" or > "struggle", nor "critical" or "crucial" or "necessary" etc. - and "help" is > used as a verb rather than a noun. Not big fan of the Wikipedia donation style. It always feels bit desperate. > > 8. No indication why participation and/or donation is important > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > The bar does not say, nor does it (ostensibly) link to a statement regarding > why it is important for users to donate money or to participate otherwise. I > realize that may not be an easy goal to achieve in a narrow bar - but it is > what it is. > > > This least may not be exhaustive... True --- Slightly off-topic: What I personally would welcome is more of 'say' in about use of a financial contribution. Not directed to specific bug, as this never gonna work. More in sense of a questionnaire, where do you think the donation should be spend. Kind of a 'poll'. Donating might be somewhat of a 'self-interest'. Say you are primary a Writer user. You maybe with the implicit idea some (high priority) Writer bugs getting solved. 5 years later, no change. So it feels like you're donating to bottomless pit. It doesn't make any difference. So why should I? Some might prioritize bug fixes above features (and in their most used component). In general people more active/involved in the project might have totally different priority's compared to the masses who actually donate. Some context: spending money on reviving Base is personally not my highest priority with all long-standing bugs in other - more commonly used - components. I do get the desire, but if it's the right thing to do? A poll by those who (actually) donate would create some 'accountability' for the board regarding spending. Sure te board is free to spend. So can deviate from the 'wishes' of the donors, but would 'require', ideally - some explanation.
(In reply to Telesto from comment #7) > More neutral would be, IMHO: > > Help improve LibreOffice. Donate | Get Involved Even this change would already improve things, for sure. > > 4. Button is far from the text > > ------------------------------ > > There is quite a distance, I admit. However is quite UI consistent and well > it's next to the X So, when you've decided to dismiss it already, the you'll notice the button... will you change your mind? Maybe so, maybe no. > Maybe something like: Contribute Thunderbird uses "Participate" - better differentiation from "Donate" than "Contribute". so: +----------------------------------------------------------+ | Help improve LibreOffice! [Donate] | [Participate] X | +----------------------------------------------------------+ an even better easy improvement. > --- > Slightly off-topic: What I personally would welcome is more of 'say' in > about use of a financial contribution. Not directed to specific bug, as this > never gonna work. More in sense of a questionnaire, where do you think the > donation should be spend. Kind of a 'poll'. Have a look at this discussion thread: https://community.documentfoundation.org/t/budget-2025-planning/13028/1 ... and not continuing that discussion here, since it is indeed off topic :-\