Description: We can set the defaults for the Font Color, Background Color, Format as Currency, Border Color, etc. from the small triangle on the right allowing us to set a default and just click the cell then icon once to use it. The border icon says "Shift to overwrite" but pressing shift and selecting a border type doesn't do anything. We need to click a cell, then the icon, then individual type every time now wasting time. Steps to Reproduce: 1. Click the cell you want to edit. 2. Click the small arrow on the right side of the borders button. 3. Select the border type. There is no way to set a default type so you must just keep doing this for every cell selected or groups of cells selected over and over. 4. Click shift and select a type of border but nothing happens. The icon says (Shift to overwrite). Actual Results: We need to click three times. Once on the cell or cells we want. Then the icon twice every time. Once to get a drop down and then again for the border type each time. Expected Results: We set the default border type (like a color) and easily click the icon once to select it easily instead of clicking twice every time. As this action is repetitive a fix would be a good accessibility update reducing repetitive strain. Reproducible: Always User Profile Reset: Yes Additional Info: Shift to overwrite/set the default border
Created attachment 205181 [details] Mouseover popup
What I remember is that a specific border is applied like on the left side. And if you pick another, eg. the right side, the previous is overwritten - unless shift is pressed. Seems to be a regression. Version: 25.8.4.2 (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community Build ID: 580(Build:2) CPU threads: 32; OS: Linux 6.18; UI render: default; VCL: kf6 (cairo+xcb) Locale: de-DE (en_US.UTF-8); UI: en-US 25.8.4-3 Calc: threaded
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #2) > What I remember is that a specific border is applied like on the left side. > And if you pick another, eg. the right side, the previous is overwritten - > unless shift is pressed. Seems to be a regression. No, the opposite. And, if there is a problem with the result, it might not be happening with every kind of border – I can set both left and right sides and overwrite them with upper and lower sides by means of the shift key (using the Tabbed UI).
BTW, I don't recall that the border icon ever worked in the same way as the background color icon (which is what the OP is actually requesting, nothing to do with the shift key), so I don't understand why this report is set as a regression. IOW, in which version of LO the border icon was split between "apply the same border as the last one selected" and the (right-side) down arrow that displays the other typical borders to select from?
I mainly want to select a border and the just be able to use the icon to apply it like colors. Just one quick click. This would save heaps of time. I wasn't sure what the English popup meant as when I clicked shift it didn't seem to do anything. Is "Shift to overwrite" meant to keep the outside edges? "Press shift to keep edges" I made 2 4x4 grids (Outer Border and All Inner Lines) then selected the middle four cells. I pressed shift and then no border. I couldn't see any difference. It would be nice if the shift key could let use keep of delete the outer border though. What is "Shift to overwrite" meant to do? I though it meant press shift and set the default border you want which would be useful. Do you think using the border icon and arrow like the color icon would be a good thing? I can only see it as a good thing as it would mean less clicks to do the same job.
Created attachment 205250 [details] showing the 4x4 grids with gap I pressed shift but didn't get a different result on the second grid.
I selected Outer Border and nothing happened when I tried to delete the center cross of the 4 cells. When 4 cells were selected and I pressed shift and tried again I was able to remove the center cross with Outer Border. Shift is doing something but we can't tell if it is active and the popup isn't clear. I tried the same thing with No Borders but wasn't able to delete the outside edges with shift pressed or not pressed. I also tried multiple times just to make sure.
Created attachment 205251 [details] Another weird thing After clearing the center I went to the left side and clicked Outer Border on the 2 cells on the left in the center. Nothing happened. Then after clearing it by selecting No Borders it kept the left side line. Something strange is happening.
(In reply to ady from comment #4) > BTW, I don't recall that the border icon ever worked in the same way as the > background color icon... Checked with 6.4 and you are right, no (obvious) effect with shift being pressed.
This has been discussed in bug 64626 leading to renaming from Border to "Borders, add lines; SHIFT to add and remove" and later what we have now. I don't see any shift in the function. So is the request to make this button overwrite the cell setting unless the user presses shift?
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #10) > This has been discussed in bug 64626 leading to renaming from Border to > "Borders, add lines; SHIFT to add and remove" and later what we have now. I > don't see any shift in the function. > > So is the request to make this button overwrite the cell setting unless the > user presses shift? Steps for how you can see the effect of pressing Shift: 1. Select a 3x3 area of cells 2. From the Borders toolbar button, apply Outer border and all inner lines 3. Still retaining the selection, try to apply Outer border - observe that nothing happens 4. Press down Shift and apply Outer border - observe that the operation succeeded and you now have only the outer border
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #11) > Steps for how you can see the effect of pressing Shift: Excellent! Now the question for the OP, what do you expect?
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #12) > (In reply to Buovjaga from comment #11) > > Steps for how you can see the effect of pressing Shift: > Excellent! Now the question for the OP, what do you expect? First, the [shift] key does not have an effect on the icon, but on the cells. The "normal" no-shift action is to "add" borders to the currently selected cells. If you already have top_and_bottom borders on the selected cell and you press the left-side border icon, then you have these 3 sides of the cell with a border. But, under the same initial scenario, if you press [shift] and then you click on the left-side border icon, you should end up with _only_ the left-side border; i.e. the specific border replaces the prior one(s) (instead of adding). This is all normal, expected usage. The problem in comment 0 (and all the follow up comments about [shift]) is the mention of [SHIFT] itself, which has nothing to do with what the OP wants. The request is simple. Do you see how the background color icon works? It has a main icon and a down-arrow to its side. The down-arrow allows you to select a (new) background color for the selected cells, which also sets the next "default color" for the main icon (until you select a different color on the same palette next time you use it). Then the main icon allows you to apply the same background color to other cells without having to open the color palette each and every time. The OP's request: do the same/equivalent behavior for borders (instead of background colors) on the Borders icon (which is currently not a split icon as the background color is). The actual request is at least worth a discussion.
Thank you so much for the replies. A clearer popup instruction would be nice for the shift instruction. Instead of "Shift to overwrite" which isn't very clear, something like "Shift clears other borders". The title "Borders" could also change when pressing shift to indicate something is happening. For example, "Borders" becomes "Border + Clear Others" when pressing shift. And if the icons changed as well with red background bits of lines when the shift button is pressed to show the difference it would make the program easier to use and understand. I can draw a few examples of icons this week. Maybe the shift button should be reversed and shift should allows us to add the extra borders instead of take them away. As shift does that in most other programs. Shift is usually positive. I should get back to the main topic though. Sorry for kind of having 2 bits here in one thread. I just thought as it was about 1 button I should keep everything in the same thread. Is it okay to get the border button programmed like the color buttons with the arrow and selection bit separate? It would speed up work and hopefully we won't get RSI in the future for having to click individual borders so much as we do now.
(In reply to a4jp.com from comment #14) > Thank you so much for the replies. > > A clearer popup instruction would be nice for the shift instruction. > > Instead of "Shift to overwrite" which isn't very clear, something like > "Shift clears other borders". Historical note: "Shift to overwrite" was already considered an improvement, done in 1df9fb01cf940b34dafede8c88f813b369bab69d Before that, it was "Borders, add lines; SHIFT to add and remove".
(In reply to a4jp.com from comment #14) > Maybe the shift button should be reversed I am completely against such reversion. No, no. -1. There are so many reasons to be against such reversion that I don't even want to start mentioning them. Moreover, it is off-topic in this enhancement request. In summary, the request is to split the "Borders" icon: the down-arrow on the left side would take the current behavior of the current Borders icon, while the (new) main icon would repeat the same border that was last-used (which might come from "Cell Format > Borders", not necessarily from the specific borders that are currently displayed when clicking on the current "Borders" icon). This is similar to the "Background Color" icon, similar to the "Font Color" icon, or similar to the "Format as Currency" icon in Calc.
Yes, to split the "Borders" icon and the drop-down arrow on the left side. The left side would take the current behavior of the current Borders icon. The (new) main icon would repeat the same border that was last-used (which might come from "Cell Format > Borders", not necessarily from the specific borders that are currently displayed when clicking on the current "Borders" icon). Similar to the function of the "Background Color" icon, "Font Color" icon and "Format as Currency" icon and arrow in Calc.
We seem to read comment 0 differently. But both enhancement requests sound reasonable to me. #1 Make it easier to apply a certain border style at different places, with the suggested solution to change the menu button into a split button. #2 Clarify the modes and either a) make shift add another border or b) rephrase/update the documentation; For example: a) Single cell with a border on the left side: what should happen if the right border style button is clicked and what if shift is being pressed b) Same as a) but with a selection of A1:E10 c) Same as a) but with a selection of A1, C3, E5 I vote for changing the shift behavior and make it add the second style, without the function would overwrite the attribute. And the same for multiple continuous selections.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #18) > I vote for changing the shift behavior and make it add the second style, > without the function would overwrite the attribute. And the same for > multiple continuous selections. Stop messing with decades of normal usage of spreadsheet tools. The most common action is to add a border set, not to replace the existing ones. There is no logical reason to reverse the usage of shift in this case (not only confusing users of the current method but also adding unneeded complexity to the most common task); it does not matter that the shift key performs differently on some other software that has nothing to do with spreadsheets. The only reason that the shift key is mentioned here is ignorance. Even if you were to reverse the effect of the shift key (which you should _not_), users would need to understand what they are doing, or RTFM. The real request is to reduce the number of clicks in order to apply the same set of borders that was used last, instead of having to open the borders palette each and every time. Do that, and the OP (and other Calc users) will be happy with the outcome. Forget about the changing the usage of the shift key; maintain the current behavior and effect of the shift key.
(In reply to ady from comment #19) > The most common action is to add a border set, not to replace... Why do you think so? Don't we provide a sufficient set of configurations so addition is not needed at all. (And please try to phrase your comments more positively. Makes it easier to respect your typically valuable warnings about unnecessary changes.)
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #20) > (In reply to ady from comment #19) > > The most common action is to add a border set, not to replace... > Why do you think so? Don't we provide a sufficient set of configurations so > addition is not needed at all. I'll give some generic examples (and, the border sets are fine with me). The typical action when applying borders is to use one of the classic sets (those that are already shown on the borders icon already). When the user wants something slightly different than the typical ones, then the user would "add" two or more of those classic sets, in order to obtain the desired effect. Keep in mind that the selected area could be either one cell or a range. The desired effect is sometimes based on objective goals (e.g. bringing attention to some result among a whole range of data nearby it), whereas sometimes it is a matter of subjective liking things in a certain way. The action that is less frequent (than "adding" sets of classic borders in order to obtain some combination of them) is to "replace" the cell/range border with a completely new set. This could happen, for instance, when the user modifies a spreadsheet that was already built in a certain way and now several changes are needed to the whole structure of the spreadsheet. The other typical case is that some combination of borders was applied, but the result was not what the user really wants or is not (subjectively) satisfied with the result. I would say that just [CTRL]+[Z] (undo) a recently-applied border would be more frequent than completely replacing a border that was already set in some more-distant past action. If more customization is needed, then the user would go to the cell format > borders tab (thickness, color, line style...). Spreadsheet tools are most frequently used on patterns (of data) or to obtain patterns (e.g. applying similar formulas, obtaining graphs...). Copy&paste, fill series and alike are all "repeating" actions (again, patterns). If a user applies borders early-on when building a spreadsheet, it makes it more difficult to modify the spreadsheet "by patterns" latter-on, because borders are copied too (and it is common to use borders on "special" areas, such as results, which should look different than the rest of the data). This is why experienced users apply borders (and other formats that "mark" special areas) only after the structure of the spreadsheet is clear and functioning as expected. If you apply those formats early-on, you will probably find yourself having to correct them later. The real request in this ticket is clear: repeat the UX method already used on other icons (Background Color, Font Color, Format as Currency) on the Borders icon. The [SHIFT] key has nothing to do with the request. The relatively-more frequent action does not require pressing shift. You press shift in order to obtain a different (relatively less frequent) action than the regular one. As for inverting the usage of the shift key... There is no reason to impose on users the use of the shift key when no key is needed. Let's say you have a command line (e.g. grep, sed, make...) with very well-known command line options, and you are used to use them (i.e. muscle memory) or you use them in some kind of batch/script. As a user, what would happen if suddenly a new version of such command would invert the result/effect of an option that you have been using for years? Inverting the effect of an action (especially in software that is used in order to organize data into _patterns_) has to have a very logical fundamental objective reason, and it has to outweigh the negative effects. The case of changing how we (users) already use the shift key on the Borders icon does not match such basic reasoning. What is done in other kinds of software might sometimes be a source of inspiration for new behavior/effects, but it is not a reason to invert the current effect of the shift key in Calc. Could we please focus on the real goal of the OP (instead of focusing on whichever misinterpretations of unrelated procedures were made before)? BTW, a similar request (to split the icon) can be potentially asked about other icons. The negative consideration about such split is that the area on which the user has to pinpoint the mouse gets (much) smaller, so not necessarily every icon that could be split, should. In some cases, the full "open a palette-like" icon should be kept (instead of splitting it) while adding a new mixed/split alternative icon for allowing two actions, with the split down-arrow "open the palette-like" action and the main "repeat the last-used (format)" (in this case, "repeat the last-used border") action.
We discussed the topic in the design meeting. The function works well and adds borders to the configuration or overwrites it when shift is pressed. The proposed inversion of the workflow, ie. overwrite by default and add per shift, might align with common sense. But changing known workflows is not justified with a single complaint. The proposed split button is welcome but should be handled in an extra ticket. So this boils down to just a different phrasing. We suggest "Borders (shift to replace)". Code pointer: officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI/GenericCommands.xcu <node oor:name=".uno:SetBorderStyle" oor:op="replace">
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #22) > The proposed split button is welcome but should be handled in an extra > ticket. Just to mention: Excel has no overwrite/replace functionality and provides the split button with the default action to apply the last used border and all other including "More..." when expanded.
Shortened the title. Reporter, I hope this captures your intent well enough. Title change is independent of my opinion on what should be done.