Bug 44274 - Writer FORMATTING: bullets behave incorrect when indent "before text" or "first line" is negative number
Summary: Writer FORMATTING: bullets behave incorrect when indent "before text" or "fir...
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
(earliest affected)
3.3.4 release
Hardware: x86-64 (AMD64) All
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
Depends on:
Reported: 2011-12-29 06:24 UTC by Shannon
Modified: 2015-05-06 17:29 UTC (History)
1 user (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:

bullet operation (30.64 KB, image/png)
2011-12-29 06:24 UTC, Shannon

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Description Shannon 2011-12-29 06:24:08 UTC
Created attachment 54940 [details]
bullet operation

It is very hard to adjust position of bullet list. As show in the attached image.
Comment 1 Rainer Bielefeld Retired 2012-04-24 09:22:41 UTC
I see the effect, with "LibreOffice (RC1) German UI/Locale [Build-ID: 21cb047-d7e6025-9ba54fc-b4a51a8-f42372b] on German WIN7 Home Premium (64bit), but I doubt that it's a bug.

Thank you for your report – unfortunately important information is missing.
May be hints on <http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport> will help you to find out what information will be useful to reproduce your problem? If you believe that that  is really sophisticated please as for Help on a user mailing list
- Write a meaningful Summary describing exactly what the problem is
- Attach a sample document (not only screenshot) or refer to an existing 
  sample document in an other Bug with a link.
- Contribute a step by step instruction containing every key press and every 
  mouse click how to reproduce your problem (due to example in Bug 43431)
- add information 
  -- what EXACTLY is unexpected
  -- and WHY do you believe it's unexpected (cite Help or Documentation!)
  -- concerning your LibO version (with Build ID if it's not a public release)
     and localization (UI language, Locale setting)
   -- everything else crossing your mind after you read linked texts

Even  if you can not provide all demanded information, every little new information might bring the breakthrough.

May be you can test <https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/bug/> for submitting bug reports?
Comment 2 sasha.libreoffice 2012-05-03 06:27:26 UTC
Thanks for bugreport
1. Duplicate of another bugreport
2. Not a bug
3. Use Styles for create lists quick and professionally looking
Comment 3 Rainer Bielefeld Retired 2012-05-17 21:50:58 UTC
Closing Bug due to reporter's inactivity as WFM.

Please feel free to reopen this bug if you find out that the problem still exists with the current stable LibreOffice version and if you can contribute requested additional information due to <http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport> (especially BugReport Details)!
Comment 4 Shannon 2012-05-17 23:03:44 UTC
Although one of your team member said it is NOT a bug, I insist it is, even it is a behavior by design, that design is not user friendly.

I understand that you can use Styles to define your style, but WHY is the unindent behave like that by default? How does it calculate the position it should shift?? Very weird.

@Rainer: I have described current behavior and what I expected in the initial report (attachment).   If there are anything you feel not clear, please let me know.

However, if your team is very familiar with this "problem" and insist that this is the effect by design, please feel free to close this bug again, and I won't reopen it :-)

Thanks a lot!
Comment 5 Shannon 2012-05-17 23:16:57 UTC
I re-read my initial report, it is indeed not clear enough, let me try describe it again
My Libre Office cames from Ubuntu official repository, current version is: 350m1(Build:2)

There are two unwanted behavior, the first, arguably "wrong" behavior is, while I use the bullet it looks like this:

This is a line that already exist
    * This is a bullet    <-- I click the bullet button then type the text


The problem is, bullet is ALWAYS indented, I want it to be NOT indented like this:

This is a line that already exist
* This is a bullet    <-- I click the bullet button then type the text


This may not be a problem, if you can define behavior of the bullet in "Styles" and optionally make it default (as different users having different preferences).

However, the 2nd behavior, in my opinion, is a hardcore design problem, at least the default settings are not correct:


    |  This is a line that already exist
 *  |      This is a bullet    <-- I click unindent button


In the above sample, "|" represents page margin.  While I click the unindent button, 2 UNWANTED behavior happen:

1. the bullet itself is shifted left BEYOND the page border! Expected: it should be shifted left to the position same as "T" in the previous line.

2. the text is NOT shifted along with the bullet. Expected: it should be shifted along with the bullet and keeps identical space between the bullet and the text.

Although you might as well say that this can be defined in Styles, I would say, the default behavior is by no means wanted by any user.  

A possibility that your team really think this is not a bug, is that I should not click the "unindent" button for this??  If so, what shall I do to achieve what I want? (a bullet aligned with previous paragraph, not indented)  And if this process is so obscure, isn't it a usability problem?

Thanks a lot.
Comment 6 Rainer Bielefeld Retired 2012-05-18 03:42:23 UTC
That's all well known, has nothing to do with bullets (tra a normal text paragraph). You are using the wrong tools in the wrong way and are astonished that you get wrong results.

Comment 7 sasha.libreoffice 2012-05-18 03:48:24 UTC
Thanks for additional information. Sorry for not understand problem early.
About default behaviour:
Interesting thing may be placed here http://extensions.libreoffice.org/  and here http://templates.libreoffice.org/

About wrong outdent behaviour:
Very interesting bug. Reproducible in 3.3.4 and 3.5.3 on Fedora 64 bit
Steps to reproduce:
0. Start Writer
1. Enter 1 line of text
2. Press "Add numbering" on toolbar or press F12
3. Press "Decrease indent" or enter negative number in Format->Paragraph->Tab "Intent&Spacing"->field "First line".
Expected: distance from bullet to text remains constant
Actually: distance from bullet to text increases each time

Partially workaround: Format->Paragraph->Tab "Tabs"->button "New" or click on ruler on top of page to create tabstop.
If problem annoying constantly, create new template where this tabstop added initially to stiles, then assign it as default.
(do not change existing templates or will encounter another bug)

Changing version to 3.3.4 as most early reproducible
Comment 8 A (Andy) 2014-11-28 22:27:31 UTC
Reproducible with LO, Win 8.1
Comment 9 Gordo 2015-05-06 17:29:50 UTC
Bug 75936 changed the behaviour of the decrease indent.

You can still decrease the indents in the paragraph indents and spacing but you can do that with a regular paragraph as well.

Windows Vista 64
Build ID: 88805f81e9fe61362df02b9941de8e38a9b5fd16