if a referenced cell is deleted (delete row/column) the referencing cells show #REF if this cell is on a different table or out of view it will not be recognized by the user IN TIME ! IMO deleting a referenced cell should raise a popup "Warning - referenced cell will be deleted - Continue yes/no" "show referencing cells yes/no" this is a major usability issue
UX plz help.
Hi, any progress on this ? can't be a big issue to pop up a window as in the referencing cell a REF error is shown.
We're replacing our use of the 'ux-advise' component with a keyword: Component -> LibreOffice Add Keyword: needsUXEval [NinjaEdit]
unfortunately still not fixed in 5.2.1.2
may be this issue can still be addressed during the bug hunting session 5.3.0 Beta 2 !!!!!
@Eike, Kohei any opinion on this? Would it be a legitimate alert to warn users of potential for data loss? And would implementing something like this be too much of a nag if always enabled, better to just provide as an configurable alert? And pick a default. Probably no interest as a 5.3 late feature, but seems to have merit for 5.4.
(In reply to Ferdinand from comment #5) > may be this issue can still be addressed during the bug hunting session > 5.3.0 Beta 2 !!!!! The bug hunting session is not for fixing bugs, but for finding them.
sorry guys, data loss is always a major bug
A non optional alert would be unacceptable work break. To not create a new option, could be associated with Menu/Tools/Options/LibreOffice calc/General - Show overwrite warning when pasting data.
pls look at the package manager you can not delete a package with depending packages. you must "force" it and THEN it's your responsibility if you get an inconsistent state.
(In reply to Ferdinand from comment #10) One issue per bug, please.
(In reply to m.a.riosv from comment #9) >... > To not create a new option, could be associated with > Menu/Tools/Options/LibreOffice calc/General - Show overwrite warning when > pasting data. Not sure that checkbox would link the right behavior. The overwrite warning there is: "You are pasting data into cells that already contain data. Do you really want to overwrite the existing data." But here we are deleting cell(s) that have referenced linkages--and should be aware of what happens to values in those referenced cells? Warning should probably be an alert that action would delete cell(s) with active reference(s).
Sure, but I hope text can be modified to explain what it's affected by the option. I'm only think how to avoid a new option, because without an option to disable remark for this matter, for me it would be absolutely unacceptable.
Hi I just want to recall the necessity to handle this problem as it is still not addressed after 2 years in 5.3.3.2. please will this feature be made available in 5.4 as suggested in comment 6?
As this is not set to resolved fix it is not implemented, no. First, we certainly do not want to scan the entire document (or broadcast and collect a new before-deletion hint) whether a formula expression references a to be deleted cell or not for each cell/column/row to be deleted. Second, an expression could also reference a cell/range not only in cell formulas but also in named expressions, validation, conditional formatting, ... We could significantly slow things down with such an approach, so anything like that should be optional not activated by default, which then again doesn't help an inexperienced user either. Plus, implementation would be cumbersome. In short, I'm not a friend of this.
Sorry I do not understand this reasoning in comment 15 the referenced cell shows the error immediately (given automatic calc is on) if in addition to the error in the cell a pop up is triggered with the undo option it would solve the problem without noticeable delay. just my 2c
(In reply to Ferdinand from comment #16) > if in addition to the error in the cell a pop up is triggered with the undo > option it would solve the problem without noticeable delay. Ok, I think you just moved the goalposts in such a way that this could now be the job of your own special extension. Eike, do you agree? Then we could close this and Ferdinand can find someone to develop such an extension for him.
Sorry guys, I am a (python, sql) developer myself and I am aware of the danger of deleting referenced cells - a widely missing feature in all spreadsheets I know. The problems hits less experienced users who should be protected against such "stupid" errors.
(In reply to Ferdinand from comment #18) > Sorry guys, > > I am a (python, sql) developer myself and I am aware of the danger of > deleting referenced cells - a widely missing feature in all spreadsheets I > know. > > The problems hits less experienced users who should be protected against > such "stupid" errors. Then you can create a Python extension for it. If we implemented this in core, then we would get dozens of bug reports complaining about performance worsening on deleting cell contents.
(In reply to Ferdinand from comment #0) > if a referenced cell is deleted (delete row/column) the referencing cells > show #REF > if this cell is on a different table or out of view it will not be > recognized by the user IN TIME ! A user deleting data in a spreadsheet should know what he/she is doing. I expect more situations can be found to 'help' users. I wouldn't start along this path.
There is a general disagreement to your idea. I would appreciate a very unobtrusive method of communication like via statusbar. But since we don't have this we communicate per messagebox or infobar not even a balloon tip, and many other situation would need to inform the user, the proposal is a WONTFIX.
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #20) > (In reply to Ferdinand from comment #0) > > if a referenced cell is deleted (delete row/column) the referencing cells > > show #REF > > if this cell is on a different table or out of view it will not be > > recognized by the user IN TIME ! > > A user deleting data in a spreadsheet should know what he/she is doing. > I expect more situations can be found to 'help' users. I wouldn't start > along this path. I a agree partly with "a user deleting data", the problem is often "another user is deleting .. " in general I doubt that the majority - especially beginners - know what they are doing. and even myself. after a few years not working in a specific spreadsheet I can't remember some references and I am surprised to find a REF error in another sheet. the function "trace dependents" is available and could be used. example sheet 1 cell a1=1, cell a2=2, sheet 2, cell a1=+$sheet1.A1+$sheet1.A2 clicking trace dependents in sheet 1 cell a2 creates a blue line with a dot in cell a2 and a square - undefined. at least the user would know that deleting the row/column with cell a2 will create REF Error Again, the performance argument is a weak one as the test needs to be fired only on "delete", especially compared with the time needed to repair the error. Sometimes the repair process is almost impossible, if for example the original users has left the company. Checking all backups (if available) is extremely time consuming.
me again ;-) Version: 6.3.1.2 we do get a warning if we want to past new content into cells with content
we also should get a warning if referenced cells are removed
Created attachment 154163 [details] warning overriding cells with content
Hi Ferdinand, (In reply to Ferdinand from comment #16) > Sorry I do not understand this reasoning in comment 15 > > the referenced cell shows the error immediately (given automatic calc is on) > if in addition to the error in the cell a pop up is triggered with the undo > option it would solve the problem without noticeable delay. That sounds as if it is easier to implement, without the negative effects on performance, and other trouble that @erack explained. But I doubt it really is simpler, because it still would be necessary not only do the changes invoked by a user action (which in done automatically, unless it is turned off) to track if one or more of the changes indeed are invalidated results, that then would trigger the popup. The latter is simple, but the step before.. Eike, if you could be so kind to give your expert input on this.. (In reply to Ferdinand from comment #23/25) > we do get a warning if we want to past new content into cells with content > we also should get a warning if referenced cells are removed That could be a completely different approach? Such as: I delete some content for the first time, then a popup tells me: "are you really sure, you may break formulas .. etc" ? But rather generic, probably panicking inexperienced users. And how to act on editing cell contents? How much I like (or not, as a professional trainer ;) ) the idea to prevent users doing stupid things, I still see no workable solution for this..
Hi, i just checked 6.4 suggested solution: Before deleting a column, row or sheet all cells to be deleted must be checked with "Detective/Trace dependents" and raise an error "Cell x:y on sheet z" depends on "Cell a:b on sheet c" for the first positive. This would create a very unique selling point - at least for a while and save a lot of time and tears. And from an usability point of view, I think it's a trade off between performance and time spent for restoring broken sheets. IMO a very clear decision. and if someone really prefers or needs ref errors due to performance issues, this can be made configurable like "iterative references". sorry to be irksome.
(In reply to Ferdinand from comment #28) > Before deleting a column, row or sheet all cells to be deleted must be > checked with... It still requires to scan the whole document, which is time-consuming. See comment 15. However, you may easily write a macro that does exactly what you need.
*** Bug 148319 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***