Bug 107447 - Terms of 2 Formatting Marks are different to the Unicode Terms
Summary: Terms of 2 Formatting Marks are different to the Unicode Terms
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: UI (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
Inherited From OOo
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: ⁨خالد حسني⁩
URL:
Whiteboard: target:24.2.0
Keywords:
: 119723 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks: Formatting-Mark
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2017-04-26 12:52 UTC by Harald Koester
Modified: 2023-10-22 06:00 UTC (History)
10 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


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Description Harald Koester 2017-04-26 12:52:56 UTC
In LibreOffice the terms 'No-width optional break' and 'No-width no break' are used as formatting marks. These are not the official Unicode terms. The Unicode terms are 'Zero-width non-joiner' (U+200C) and 'Zero-width joiner' (U+200D). 

Expectation: Use of Unicode terms.

The mentioned terms occur at the following places:
(a) Writer, Calc, Impress, Draw: Menu > Insert > Formatting Mark
(b) Help page 'Formatting Mark'
(c) Writer help page 'Preventing Hyphenation of Specific Words'

Hint: It may be wise to add the old terms in brackets to the new terms, hence AFAIK Microsoft uses the same old terms.

If necessary the new terms also have to be localised. According Wikipedia the terms in German are 'Bindehemmer' and 'Breitenloser Verbinder”.

Bugs exist already in verion 3.3.0. Hence inherited from OOo.
Comment 1 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos 2017-04-27 17:08:49 UTC
Our terms are better; they are more familiar to DTP users. We don’t have to match any technical term just for the sake of it; and Unicode has given misnomers in the past.
Comment 2 ⁨خالد حسني⁩ 2017-04-27 18:43:33 UTC
I disagree. I find our terms confusing, and every time I have to look it up to find what Unicode character this is going to insert. I actually never seen these terms used outside of OOo/LibreOffice.
Comment 3 ⁨خالد حسني⁩ 2017-04-27 18:46:44 UTC
This very bug is even an evidence about this confusion since “No-width optional break” is actually “zero-width space” not “zero-width non-joiner”. Actually I’m not even sure, I need to check the source code…
Comment 4 Sophia Schroeder 2017-12-10 11:32:38 UTC
I see there is nothing I can do about in the moment, so reassigned to default and remarking to new.
Comment 5 Harald Koester 2018-09-06 11:58:12 UTC
This bug is a subset of bug 119723. Hence marked as duplicate.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 119723 ***
Comment 6 ⁨خالد حسني⁩ 2018-09-07 12:04:20 UTC
*** Bug 119723 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 7 ⁨خالد حسني⁩ 2018-09-07 12:16:24 UTC
Checking the code, 
No-width optional break, inserts U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE
No-width no ~break, inserts U+2060 WORD JOINER

So these are different characters from ZWJ and ZWNJ, but I still think the names need to be changed because they are still confusing. People should not need to check the code to find out what character is this. One suggestion is to keep the terminology (for familiarity of existing users), and add the actual character code point between parentheses, and the full name in the tooltip.


e.g.:

No-width optional break (U+200B) → tooltip: Inserts U+200B Zero Width Space
Comment 8 Xisco Faulí 2018-09-10 16:31:35 UTC
(In reply to Khaled Hosny from comment #7)
> Checking the code, 
> No-width optional break, inserts U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE
> No-width no ~break, inserts U+2060 WORD JOINER
> 
> So these are different characters from ZWJ and ZWNJ, but I still think the
> names need to be changed because they are still confusing. People should not
> need to check the code to find out what character is this. One suggestion is
> to keep the terminology (for familiarity of existing users), and add the
> actual character code point between parentheses, and the full name in the
> tooltip.
> 
> 
> e.g.:
> 
> No-width optional break (U+200B) → tooltip: Inserts U+200B Zero Width Space

Adding UX Team
Comment 9 Harald Koester 2018-09-10 21:08:10 UTC
(In reply to Khaled Hosny from comment #6)
> *** Bug 119723 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

In bug 119723 there are more cases of incorrect terms listed. So the cases in this report (107447) are a subset. Hence the correct state for this report should be "Dupe of 119723" in order to cover all cases.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 119723 ***
Comment 10 ⁨خالد حسني⁩ 2018-09-11 15:41:05 UTC
This is the older report, just add any additional information here, or make the other issue depend on this. This can’t be a duplicate of an issue that were reported after it especially when this had a useful discussion already.
Comment 11 Heiko Tietze 2018-09-13 09:22:28 UTC
We are talking about officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI/GenericCommands.xcu

<node oor:name=".uno:InsertZWSP" oor:op="replace">
  <prop oor:name="Label" oor:type="xs:string">
      <value xml:lang="en-US">No-~width optional break</value>
   </prop>
</node>

It inserts U+200B which is labeled 'ZERO WIDTH SPACE' so why not go with "Insert U+200B Zero Width Space character" as Khaled suggests.

<node oor:name=".uno:InsertZWNBSP" oor:op="replace">
  <prop oor:name="Label" oor:type="xs:string">
     <value xml:lang="en-US">No-width no ~break</value>
   </prop>
</node>

That's U+2060, labeled 'WORD JOINER' and could be "Insert U+2060 Word Joiner character".


I wonder if the ID is required, I would prefer to not put such tech talk into tooltips.
Comment 12 Hossein 2023-07-20 13:51:21 UTC
@Khaled: Could you please re-evaluate this issue, and see if it is still relevant?
Comment 13 ⁨خالد حسني⁩ 2023-07-25 09:24:31 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #11)
> We are talking about
> officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI/GenericCommands.xcu
> 
> <node oor:name=".uno:InsertZWSP" oor:op="replace">
>   <prop oor:name="Label" oor:type="xs:string">
>       <value xml:lang="en-US">No-~width optional break</value>
>    </prop>
> </node>
> 
> It inserts U+200B which is labeled 'ZERO WIDTH SPACE' so why not go with
> "Insert U+200B Zero Width Space character" as Khaled suggests.
> 
> <node oor:name=".uno:InsertZWNBSP" oor:op="replace">
>   <prop oor:name="Label" oor:type="xs:string">
>      <value xml:lang="en-US">No-width no ~break</value>
>    </prop>
> </node>
> 
> That's U+2060, labeled 'WORD JOINER' and could be "Insert U+2060 Word Joiner
> character".
> 
> 
> I wonder if the ID is required, I would prefer to not put such tech talk
> into tooltips.

I opted for updating the names without including the Unicode code point (U+XXXX), since I agree the UI should not have such technical jargon.

https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/154886
Comment 14 Commit Notification 2023-07-25 16:24:39 UTC
Khaled Hosny committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/a9180786cf39c12b9000c7372e7c30cd2ee8501e

tdf#107447: Align special character names with Unicode names

It will be available in 24.2.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 15 ⁨خالد حسني⁩ 2023-07-30 05:18:10 UTC
*** Bug 119723 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 16 sdc.blanco 2023-09-17 10:49:18 UTC
Here is a patch to update the changed labels in the help page [1], plus add the missing "Narrow no-break space". 
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/help/+/156955

Before submitting this patch, I will ask if any corrections should be made in the descriptions in the current help page [1] (beyond the labels, which will be updated).

[1] https://help.libreoffice.org/24.2/en-US/text/shared/01/formatting_mark.html
Comment 17 Commit Notification 2023-09-20 21:33:34 UTC
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/4fdb26f728d72bde645fd7fd1a3601340cec82dd

tdf#107447  add hyphen to zero-width, improve keyboard accelerators

It will be available in 24.2.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 18 Commit Notification 2023-09-20 21:33:37 UTC
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/help/commit/1c54900b4d40d11cbef8f14d2907d8d9f12c9f7b

(related)tdf#107447 update option names; tdf#121596 add "narrow no-break space"
Comment 19 BogdanB 2023-09-22 20:49:35 UTC
Just as a note:

------------------------------
In 7.6 we had
Insert Non-breaking Space
Insert Non-breaking Hyphen
insert Soft Hyphen
Insert Narrow No-break Space
No-width Optional Break
Word Joiner
--------------------------------
Version: 7.6.1.2 (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: f5defcebd022c5bc36bbb79be232cb6926d8f674
CPU threads: 4; OS: Linux 5.15; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3
Locale: ro-RO (ro_RO.UTF-8); UI: en-US
Calc: threaded

-------------------------------
Now we have in 24.2
No-break Space
Non-breaking Hyphen [I think this one should be: No-break Hyphen, to be similar like the first one, and the forth one]
Soft Hyphen
Narrow No-break Space
Zero-width Space
Word Joiner
-------------------------------
Version: 24.2.0.0.alpha0+ (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: db1ba9c56dadf4be5642a6f3de36c04208d8d9a7
CPU threads: 4; OS: Linux 5.15; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3
Locale: ro-RO (ro_RO.UTF-8); UI: en-US
Calc: threaded
Comment 20 Heiko Tietze 2023-10-22 06:00:26 UTC
(In reply to BogdanB from comment #19)
> Now we have in 24.2...
Following https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/154886 for bug 107447.