Bug 117009 - In Impress UI scroll bars are active beyond the extent of the slide
Summary: In Impress UI scroll bars are active beyond the extent of the slide
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Impress (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
Inherited From OOo
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: needsDevEval
: 57665 128067 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks: Scrollbars Page-Slide-View
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2018-04-14 15:09 UTC by brian.bj.parker99
Modified: 2019-10-26 12:13 UTC (History)
11 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:
Regression By:


Attachments
ODF presentation with Draw objects positioned off the slide (132.57 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.presentation)
2018-04-15 15:55 UTC, V Stuart Foote
Details

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Description brian.bj.parker99 2018-04-14 15:09:16 UTC
Description:
In Keynote and Powerpoint the horizontal and vertical scroll bars only appear when the slide is zoomed in, and then they only allow movement limited to the extent of the slide.  In LO the scroll bars are always present and allow the slide to be shifted an arbitrary amount off the screen with the mouse or arrow keys.
This is very clumsy as when editing slides (moving textboxes with the mouse for example) it is very easy to accidentally flick the slide off the screen,  which gives a very unstable UI.  The UI should match keynote and powerpoint and limit the scrolling range to the edges of the slide.

Steps to Reproduce:
1.Create a new slide
2.Use mouse or arrow keys to shift slide
3.The slide can be moved an arbitrary amount off the screen- scrolling should be limited to only revealing the parts of the slide off screen.

Actual Results:  
Slide is off the screen

Expected Results:
The scrolling should be limited to the extent of the slide.


Reproducible: Always


User Profile Reset: No



Additional Info:


User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_13_3) AppleWebKit/604.5.6 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/11.0.3 Safari/604.5.6
Comment 1 Jean-Baptiste Faure 2018-04-14 19:20:08 UTC
There is a very useful button just on left side of zoom slider, it fit the slide to the current window.

Best regards. JBF
Comment 2 brian.bj.parker99 2018-04-15 00:57:50 UTC
(In reply to Jean-Baptiste Faure from comment #1)
> There is a very useful button just on left side of zoom slider, it fit the
> slide to the current window.

Thanks, that is a fast way to correct from accidentally scrolling the slide off the screen. I do still think though that the user interface of keynote and powerpoint is much superior- limiting the extent of scrolling of the slide to the slide edges.


> 
> Best regards. JBF
Comment 3 V Stuart Foote 2018-04-15 15:55:14 UTC
Created attachment 141383 [details]
ODF presentation with Draw objects positioned off the slide

While Presentation's slide object (or Draw's page) has an active display size (or print area)--the entire canvas is exposed to hold Draw objects.

Impress (or Draw) scrollbars are linked to the full extent of the canvas in memory--not to the display/print size.

See the attached presentation for an example, and to understand why the scroll bars must extend beyond slide/page settings to include the entire canvas.

Some potential to limit the active edit area to just the slide (or page); but that has never been the OOo, or LibreOffice way--many folks would see it as a regression.

=>WF
Comment 4 brian.bj.parker99 2018-04-15 17:36:30 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #3)

In Keynote you can still add and edit figures off-screen on the full canvas, similarly to Draw, if you zoom out sufficiently. The only difference is that when zoomed in you are limited to scrolling the display area and not the full canvas (same for Powerpoint).

I agree that for LO Draw there is an advantage to being able to scroll over the whole canvas when zoomed in, as it is usual to prepare figures outside the display area and one is typically working on a single figure.

For a presentation program though, where you are regularly quickly shifting between a large number of slides, and editing off-screen figures is less common, that is a poor user interface due to the ease of shifting slides off the display area when dragging text boxes etc.  I use both LO Impress and OSX Keynote and Powerpoint regularly to prepare lectures and Keynote and Powerpoint feel much more fluid and stable to me, due to this issue (particularly as LO Draw is slower with a large number of slides).

I agree there may be some benefit to having consistency of UI between LO Draw and LO Impress, but I think they are quite different applications and could benefit from having different defaults in this case.


> Created attachment 141383 [details]
> ODF presentation with Draw objects positioned off the slide
> 
> While Presentation's slide object (or Draw's page) has an active display
> size (or print area)--the entire canvas is exposed to hold Draw objects.
> 
> Impress (or Draw) scrollbars are linked to the full extent of the canvas in
> memory--not to the display/print size.
> 
> See the attached presentation for an example, and to understand why the
> scroll bars must extend beyond slide/page settings to include the entire
> canvas.
> 
> Some potential to limit the active edit area to just the slide (or page);
> but that has never been the OOo, or LibreOffice way--many folks would see it
> as a regression.
> 
> =>WF
Comment 5 Heiko Tietze 2018-04-16 08:32:40 UTC
We could limit the start point of objects to be inside the slide. But typically when pasting text you have to scroll right or down, so the end point is outside. And the workflow would be strange if you cannot insert an object for some reason (out of the slide canvas) or it jumps automatically to the rightmost position.

Italo, Cor, what do you think?
Comment 6 brian.bj.parker99 2018-04-19 01:08:06 UTC
OSX Keynote has an option "auto-center" on its toolbar which is on by default.
When off it allows scrolling over the full canvas including regions off the slide, as LO Impress does now. When on it gives the behaviour I suggest- scrolling is limited to the extent of the slide.

I suggest adding a similar option to LO Impress (and ideally making it on by default).

(An alternative UI would be that of Powerpoint, which allows scrolling a slide horizontally and vertically to the bounding box of the slide and any off-slide objects (off-slide objects can initially be added by zooming out the slide until the surrounding canvas is shown). Thus, for the majority of slides, where there are no off-slide objects, no scroll bars are shown and scroll bars appear only for those slides that need it.)


(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #5)
> We could limit the start point of objects to be inside the slide. But
> typically when pasting text you have to scroll right or down, so the end
> point is outside. And the workflow would be strange if you cannot insert an
> object for some reason (out of the slide canvas) or it jumps automatically
> to the rightmost position.
> 
> Italo, Cor, what do you think?
Comment 7 Heiko Tietze 2018-04-19 12:43:58 UTC
(In reply to brian.bj.parker99 from comment #6)
> I suggest adding a similar option to LO Impress...

Sounds very reasonable. What should happen when the user pastes a lengthy text into a field, e.g. Lorem ipsum? Guess we do not max out the width anymore but in height, and virtually cut off the text (cursor up/down to scroll) after font size adjustment has been done to the minimum, if enabled.
Comment 8 brian.bj.parker99 2018-04-19 17:43:11 UTC
I think the issue of what happens to text boxes is orthogonal to the scrolling issue.
Whatever LO does now is ok- just let the text go off the boundary of the slide if necessary, and then the user can see and edit the off-slide text by either (i) zooming out sufficiently to see the canvas around the slide, or (ii) turning off the "auto-center" option and scrolling to see the off-slide text.

(Note that the proposed "auto-center" option, which limits the horizontal and vertical scrolling, is independent of the "fit slide" button that is already in LO Impress, which causes the slide to automatically zoom to fill the entire screen).

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #7)
> (In reply to brian.bj.parker99 from comment #6)
> > I suggest adding a similar option to LO Impress...
> 
> Sounds very reasonable. What should happen when the user pastes a lengthy
> text into a field, e.g. Lorem ipsum? Guess we do not max out the width
> anymore but in height, and virtually cut off the text (cursor up/down to
> scroll) after font size adjustment has been done to the minimum, if enabled.
Comment 9 Cor Nouws 2018-04-19 17:56:42 UTC
(In reply to brian.bj.parker99 from comment #0)

> limited to the extent of the slide.  In LO the scroll bars are always
> present and allow the slide to be shifted an arbitrary amount off the screen
> with the mouse or arrow keys.

Horizontally it is allowed to scroll about to the width of the slide on both sides. Vertically, it is allowed to scroll even less.

> This is very clumsy as when editing slides (moving textboxes with the mouse
> for example) it is very easy to accidentally flick the slide off the screen,
> which gives a very unstable UI.  

Might be. But than the number of complaints is rather low, to think this is a widely experienced problem?

(In reply to brian.bj.parker99 from comment #6)

> I suggest adding a similar option to LO Impress (and ideally making it on by
> default).

The option and _off_ by default, would be fine for me..
Comment 10 Heiko Tietze 2018-04-20 14:55:20 UTC
(In reply to brian.bj.parker99 from comment #8)
> I think the issue of what happens to text boxes is orthogonal to the
> scrolling issue.

Pasting text requires horizontal (and/or vertical) scrolling resulting in a blank canvas that doesn't accept controls. Therefore I understand text boxes (and any large object) as the cause of the issue - otherwise there would be a use case for not restricting the canvas.
Comment 11 Thomas Lendo 2018-05-15 21:27:45 UTC
I support the idea of the bug opener to restrict scrolling to slide/paper size instead of scrolling through the entire canvas.

It should still be possible to add or extend objects outside of slide/paper size but the default is better to be restricted. I never understood why it is possible to scroll left/right/up/down of slide/paper size when this is the intended area the user should work with and where users present their content (presentation) to others. I don't see the benefit of the current behavior in contrary to GIMP and Inkscape.
Comment 12 Thomas Lendo 2018-05-15 21:29:20 UTC
(In reply to Thomas Lendo from comment #11)
> behavior in contrary to GIMP and Inkscape.
I meant Draw and Inkscape.
Comment 13 Cor Nouws 2018-05-16 08:03:05 UTC
(In reply to Thomas Lendo from comment #11)

> It should still be possible to add or extend objects outside of slide/paper
> size but the default is better to be restricted. I never understood why it
> is possible to scroll left/right/up/down of slide/paper size when this is
> ...

I support the idea of an option.
But changing the default behavior that we must consider that people are used to work with, needs stronger arguments IMO.
Comment 14 Thomas Lendo 2018-05-16 19:42:17 UTC
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #13)
> I support the idea of an option.
> But changing the default behavior that we must consider that people are used
> to work with, needs stronger arguments IMO.
If we change the default setting, would users of existing/old profiles see the new default or would they stick in their old setting? If it doesn't change, your argument against it is obsolete in my POV.

Just for the record, regardless what the default will be: It should be possible to move/extend any object outside of paper/slide size but no scrollbars bars should be shown with this option enabled and page down/up keys should not change the canvas view if the paper/slide size fits in the canvas completely.
Comment 15 Heiko Tietze 2018-05-17 08:38:58 UTC
Besides text scrolling beyond the slide today I'm afraid of copied objects from a large presentation (A0) to a smaller (A4). But obviously all of the design team agree with this proposal.

We could go with Brian's suggestion in c6/8. Or just limit the size until the user moves an object outside. Up to development I'd say.
Comment 16 Thomas Lendo 2018-05-24 19:01:39 UTC
*** Bug 57665 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 17 Timur 2019-10-24 13:41:36 UTC
*** Bug 128067 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 18 Regina Henschel 2019-10-25 00:48:18 UTC
There is not only text outside the slide area.
Other examples:
A Bézier curve has often control points outside the slide area,
or a background picture is larger than the slide,
or a motion path, which starts/ends outside the slide,
or a drawing, which you need only partly.

Working in zoom out mode on objects or part of objects outside might be too hard on the eyes. So the area outside the slide needs to be available on any zoom level.

PowerPoint is not a good examples. Its "feature" that scrolling up and down switches the slide, is very annoying, if you use want to get scroll to the another object with the mouse wheel when you have zoomed in.

I'm not against an option to fix the scrollbar or to disable scrolling when touching an edge on movement. But only, if it is off as default or can be set off easily. Putting it deep into configuration settings, is no option for me.
Comment 19 mirko.pieropan 2019-10-26 12:13:16 UTC
Concerning the issue of text outside the slide, I think that text should not be allowed to exceed the boundaries of the slide. It should fit the text box and its font should be adjusted automatically to fit the box where the text is placed.