while discussing https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124669 it came up that the wording around the setting of tools - options - LibreOffice Calc - Formula - Recalculation on File Load is questionable, it announces to work for some special files, but works for others too.
this is irritating for users.
Winfried Donkers asked me to file new bugs since the original problem is solved,
this request is for "- the comment 'odf spreadsheet (not saved with libreoffice)' looks outdated, the setting produces different evaluation of the file even after saving it with a different name from inside calc, thus neither 'excel' nor 'not saved with libreoffice' are matched ... despite that calc does! do a new calculation of the values with this option set, and doesn't if not set. someone should check under which conditions recalc is triggered, check if that's the intended logic, and either correct the handling of files or the comments in the setting dialog." mentioned there.
Steps to Reproduce:
go to tools - options - LibreOffice Calc - Formula, see the dialog for Recalculation on File Load there, try with the steps of comment 7 of #124669 that the setting does affect files stored with actual calc versions too,
the setting works on files stored with fresh versions of LO calc,
either the setting to affect only the files specified in the dialog, or the dialog announcing clearly that it will affect 'normal' files too.
User Profile Reset: No
i think the problem is in all versions, the wording in mac and linux versions may be different
The option is clearly described here https://help.libreoffice.org/6.2/en-US/text/shared/optionen/01060900.html
However, I could imagine that we, virtually, switch from never to prompt. Meaning, if the file needs recalculation we present an infobar with access to it. Plus and option "[ ] Don't show again" including a tooltip where the option can be changed later.
What do you think, Eike?
There is no way to detect whether a file needs recalculation or not, so presenting a conditional "recalculate this" infobar isn't possible. In some circumstances and combinations of formula expressions portions are recalculated anyway, so the expectation that nothing would be recalculated if the option isn't set doesn't hold. Unless AutoCalculate is set off for that document.
So following Eike's comment my take here is WFM. Or what alternative to 'odf spreadsheet (not saved with libreoffice)' do you have in mind, b?
there may some situations where a recalc is necessary due to implementation change:
- a formula has changed with a new LO version, e.g.:
[Bug 73081] COUNTIF with criterium <>number does not count empty cells
-> Option: "Never Recalculate within same LO version" could help
situations, where a not fully recalculatetd spreadsheet is saved and does not
recalc on load are really worse, e.g. recently fixed recalc issues after
copy&paste / drag&drop.
an additional option to inform the user always could help:
-> "Never Recalculate - show Infobar"
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3)
> So following Eike's comment my take here is WFM. Or what alternative to 'odf
> spreadsheet (not saved with libreoffice)' do you have in mind, b?
My text would be: "ODF spreadsheet"
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #1)
> The option is clearly described here
IMO the wording there needs to be changed:
" Recent versions of LibreOffice caches spreadsheet formula "
" Since version XX of LibreOffice ... "
Recent is outdated soon, or maybe already.
(In reply to Oliver Brinzing from comment #4)
> -> Option: "Never Recalculate within same LO version" could help
Yes, but that is an option within an option, so adds even more complexity, also for the user. I would not do that.
> -> "Never Recalculate - show Infobar"
OK, and how would that be different from current option "Prompt user"?
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #5)
> > -> "Never Recalculate - show Infobar"
> OK, and how would that be different from current option "Prompt user"?
an InfoBar would not block the ui during file opening
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #5)
> > https://help.libreoffice.org/6.2/en-US/text/shared/optionen/01060900.html
> IMO the wording there needs to be changed:
> " Recent versions of LibreOffice caches spreadsheet formula "
> must be
> " Since version XX of LibreOffice ... "
> Recent is outdated soon, or maybe already.
We discussed this topic in the design meeting. A plain "ODF spreadsheet" should be fine (and an updated help). It's also a good idea to not interrupt the workflow with a dialog and show the recalculation in an infobar. By doing that we can also switch the default to "Prompt user" (which is the infobar) and draw more attention on the fact of required recalculation. The infobar could be an interesting easyhack.
And what the ESC thinks about this:
+ currently option is Never
+ it is dangerous currently (Heiko)
+ might need an update.
+ can re-calculate alien formats
+ Is there a good reason to break calcs ? (Michael)
+ no way to detect if you need re-calculation (Eike)
+ would be there always for Alien formats.
+ sometimes we have to calculate this (Eike)
+ can have some other wording, but …
+ suggestion is two-fold (Heiko)
+ not having a blocking dialog
→ info-bar is not controversial (Michael)
+ ask the user or not.
→ asking the user is controversial (Michael, Eike)
+ problem can be with files stored in an older version (Eike)
+ these can need re-calculating from an old version.
+ if we add a bug & then save it – things break (Kendy)
+ perhaps safest always recalculate – but poor performance (Eike)
+ could depend on the version – before 6.2.3
eg. but not a friend of that.
+ new, older + alien format options ? (Heiko)
+ not clear to the user why he should choose any of them (Eike)
+ should do something familiar (Michael)
So let's do the infobar as easyhack and reconsider the default independently later.
hi @all, sorry for late comment,
Eike: 'There is no way to detect whether a file needs recalculation or not, so presenting a conditional "recalculate this" infobar isn't possible.'
Heiko: '+ no way to detect if you need re-calculation (Eike)'
what about his flow:
1. file is loaded, whatever format, whatever settings, with cached and stored results for speedup ...
2. recalculatio is done, in the background!,
3. results are compared to those shown on screen,
4. cells who's values would change on recalculation are marked and a warning or status note informs the user that shown results are 'subject to change on recalc',
similar could be helpful when working with 'autocalculate off',