Bug 128986 - EDITING: Support fill character in a hanging indent of a paragraph
Summary: EDITING: Support fill character in a hanging indent of a paragraph
Status: UNCONFIRMED
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
6.3.3.2 release
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: Paragraph-Indent
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2019-11-23 18:00 UTC by Markus Elfring
Modified: 2021-09-01 09:44 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:
Regression By:


Attachments
simple document (8.17 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2019-12-09 10:01 UTC, Dieter
Details

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Description Markus Elfring 2019-11-23 18:00:25 UTC
Description:
The display is missing for a fill character of the first tabulator position in a paragraph where a hanging indent was selected.

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Enter the letter “A” in an empty paragraph.

2. Add a tab character.

3. Enter the letter “B”.

4. Specify a line break (shift + enter key) for this paragraph.

5. Enter the letter “C”.

6. Configure a single left aligned tab stop at “2 cm” together with a fill character (dash for example).
   https://help.libreoffice.org/6.4/en-GB/text/shared/01/05030300.html#hd_id3159151

7. Adjust paragraph properties for a hanging indent.
   https://help.libreoffice.org/6.4/en-GB/text/shared/01/05030100.html#hd_id3149169
   Example: Value “2 cm” for “Before text” and a value “-2 cm” for “First line”.

Actual Results:
Indentation is performed without the display of the selected fill character.

Expected Results:
A filling should be displayed in the first line for a known tabulator position in this paragraph.


Reproducible: Always


User Profile Reset: No


OpenGL enabled: Yes

Additional Info:
Version: 6.3.3.2.0+
Build-ID: 30(Build:2)
CPU-Threads: 4; BS: Linux 5.1; UI-Render: Standard; VCL: gtk3

See also information from the clarification request on the topic “FORMATTING: Paragraph initial tab stop cannot be filled in hanging-indented paragraphs”.
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46061
Comment 1 Dieter 2019-12-08 10:01:15 UTC
I confirm it with 

Version: 6.5.0.0.alpha0+ (x64)
Build ID: 89f0af144c18efafe2573801641689a1432c0cae
CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 18362; UI render: GL; VCL: win; 
Locale: de-DE (de_DE); UI-Language: en-GB
Calc: threaded

Problem is, that first tab stop is now at 4cm. So I think it's not really a bug, but more a reasonable enhancement request. Solution could be to add a fill character seting to Indents & Spacing tab of th paragraph dialog.

I changed bug title.

cc: Design-Team for further input or different opinion
Comment 2 Heiko Tietze 2019-12-09 09:47:31 UTC
Regina, what do you think?

Besides, it would be good to have a test document attached.
Comment 3 Dieter 2019-12-09 10:01:20 UTC
Created attachment 156429 [details]
simple document

A very simple document. Just add a first line indent and see what happens.
Comment 4 Dieter 2019-12-12 16:18:21 UTC
Heiko, you changed status from NEW to NEEDINFO. What info do you need?
Comment 5 Heiko Tietze 2019-12-13 06:55:13 UTC
(In reply to Dieter Praas from comment #4)
> Heiko, you changed status from NEW to NEEDINFO. What info do you need?

Waiting for input from Regina.
Comment 6 QA Administrators 2020-06-11 03:53:58 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 7 QA Administrators 2020-07-12 03:38:16 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 8 Markus Elfring 2020-07-12 06:56:03 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #5)
Will this issue get any more helpful input from other contributors?
Comment 9 Regina Henschel 2020-07-12 08:08:45 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #2)
> Regina, what do you think?
> 
> Besides, it would be good to have a test document attached.

An hanging indent is not a tab. I have never seen fill characters and those would be in contrast to the use case of hanging indent. A hanging indent is used if "register true" is ON and therefore there is no increased space between paragraphs. The hanging indent in that case helps finding the paragraph start.

If someone wants such unorthodox formatting, he can use a paragraph without hanging indent and a tab.

So I'm against such "feature".
Comment 10 Markus Elfring 2020-07-12 13:15:29 UTC
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #9)
> An hanging indent is not a tab.

Is a tab used so far to jump to the selected indentation?


> I have never seen fill characters

Would you like to explain such an information a bit more?


> and those would be in contrast to the use case of hanging indent.

I wonder about such a view.


> So I'm against such "feature".

Are any more factors to consider for this rejection?
Comment 11 Regina Henschel 2020-07-12 14:56:12 UTC
(In reply to Markus Elfring from comment #10)
Please excuse, I have overlooked that you want a _hanging_ indent, my remarks are for first line indent.

> (In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #9)
> > An hanging indent is not a tab.
> 
> Is a tab used so far to jump to the selected indentation?

You mean the indent of the second line by "selected indentation"? This is indeed treated as tab stop and a tab inserted left from it will jump to it.

This tab stop at indentation has position 0. Tab stops with position 0 are not listed in the tab stops of the paragraph style and if you try to add such tab stop there, it will be automatically removed. In turn you cannot style such tab.

An additional problem is, that the handling of hanging indents is interwoven with the handling of bullet and numbered lists.

Hanging indents are used for definition lists or play scripts for example. There too I have not seen such fill characters. So the question is, what is the use case of such fill character?

Workaround for your wish: Set a tab stop at -0.01mm and style it with a fill character.

Your request is valid, but implementing it, is risky.
Comment 12 Markus Elfring 2020-07-12 15:46:25 UTC
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #11)
> (In reply to Markus Elfring from comment #10)
> Please excuse, I have overlooked that you want a _hanging_ indent,
> my remarks are for first line indent.

I hope that confusion because of such information can be reduced further for the clarification of desirable software behaviour.


> You mean the indent of the second line by "selected indentation"?

Yes. - You would like to achieve an alignment with subsequent lines after a bit of text at the beginning of such a paragraph, wouldn't you?


> This is indeed treated as tab stop and a tab inserted left from it will jump to it.

Thanks for such an acknowledgement.


> This tab stop at indentation has position 0. Tab stops with position 0 are
> not listed in the tab stops of the paragraph style and if you try to add
> such tab stop there, it will be automatically removed. In turn you cannot
> style such tab.

I find this information questionable.


> An additional problem is, that the handling of hanging indents is interwoven
> with the handling of bullet and numbered lists.

I would like to achieve further improvements for this use case.


> Hanging indents are used for definition lists or play scripts for example.
> There too I have not seen such fill characters.

You might not use fill characters for tabs so often.


> So the question is, what is the use case of such fill character?

But they belong to usual functionality, don't they?


> Your request is valid,

Thanks for such a view.
Would you like to adjust the bug status accordingly?


> but implementing it, is risky.

I agree that corresponding software developments can become challenging.
Comment 13 Heiko Tietze 2020-07-13 10:24:28 UTC
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #11)
> So the question is, what is the use case of such fill character?

Could you please reply to this question. Ideally with a reference for a formatting standard but it's also fine if you explain how it has to look for you. And a really good use case is the round-trip with alternative programs such as but not necessarily Microsoft Office. As always: examples whether as picture or document are of great support.

As Regina said, implementation is risky (and the workaround is easy to do). We need to make sure that a change is of value for the majority of users.
Comment 14 Markus Elfring 2020-07-13 12:04:03 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #13)
I propose to support the application of fill characters in a consistent way for tabs.

See also:
https://help.libreoffice.org/7.0/en-GB/text/shared/01/05030300.html#hd_id3159151

Do you miss any background information still from the published software documentation?
Comment 15 Markus Elfring 2020-07-13 12:30:17 UTC
Do you understand the use case better together with terms like “tab leader” and “leader character”?
Comment 16 Heiko Tietze 2020-07-17 09:38:34 UTC
We discussed the request in the design meeting and cannot follow your reasoning. The use case is unclear, hanging indent is (to me) per se white space and consistency to tabs rather inconsistency against indentation and spacing. 

So the suggestion is to resolve WF.
Comment 17 Markus Elfring 2020-07-17 11:03:55 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #16)
> We discussed the request in the design meeting and cannot follow your reasoning.

I hope that the mentioned understanding difficulties can be resolved better.


> The use case is unclear,

I propose to recheck available information.


> hanging indent is (to me) per se white space

This can be in some cases.


> and consistency to tabs rather inconsistency against indentation and spacing.

Are your application imaginations too limited here?
Comment 18 Dieter 2021-08-30 19:26:40 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #16)
> So the suggestion is to resolve WF.

heiko, do you find any new arguments or aspects in comment 17? If not, I agree to close this bug as WF.
Comment 19 Heiko Tietze 2021-09-01 09:44:24 UTC
Markus reopened the WF'ed ticket and I will not close again in this case.