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Bug 132705 - Font kerning is extremely irregular in Writer compared to Word in Windows
Summary: Font kerning is extremely irregular in Writer compared to Word in Windows
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
Inherited From OOo
Hardware: All Windows (All)
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: Font-Rendering
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2020-05-05 09:48 UTC by Pedro
Modified: 2020-08-05 17:52 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
Character Spacing text LO Writer 6.4.3.2 versus MS Word 365 (444.11 KB, image/png)
2020-05-05 09:48 UTC, Pedro
Details
Character Spacing text LO Writer 6.4.3.2 versus MS Word 365 OpenGL off (440.85 KB, image/png)
2020-05-05 09:49 UTC, Pedro
Details
Sample file with different fonts (12.31 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2020-05-10 12:18 UTC, Pedro
Details
Zoom level 100% (56.41 KB, image/png)
2020-05-11 16:57 UTC, Pedro
Details
Zoom level 120% (60.86 KB, image/png)
2020-05-11 16:57 UTC, Pedro
Details
Zoom level 140% (66.26 KB, image/png)
2020-05-11 16:57 UTC, Pedro
Details
Zoom level 180% (72.47 KB, image/png)
2020-05-11 16:58 UTC, Pedro
Details
Word Zoom level 100% (71.03 KB, image/png)
2020-05-11 17:04 UTC, Pedro
Details
Word zoom level 120% (79.94 KB, image/png)
2020-05-11 17:04 UTC, Pedro
Details
Word zoom level 140% (91.61 KB, image/png)
2020-05-11 17:05 UTC, Pedro
Details
Word zoom level 180% (105.18 KB, image/png)
2020-05-11 17:05 UTC, Pedro
Details
PDF export zoom 100 (66.38 KB, application/pdf)
2020-05-11 17:13 UTC, Pedro
Details
PDF export zoom 140 (66.34 KB, application/pdf)
2020-05-11 17:14 UTC, Pedro
Details
PDF export zoom 100 MS Word (126.84 KB, application/pdf)
2020-05-11 17:14 UTC, Pedro
Details
PDF export zoom 140 MS Word (126.84 KB, application/pdf)
2020-05-11 17:15 UTC, Pedro
Details
Screenshot of sample ODT on Windows 10 with 7.0.0 alpha1 (24.61 KB, image/png)
2020-05-12 00:42 UTC, Ming Hua
Details
Another example of awful kerning at default zoom. (7.76 KB, image/png)
2020-05-20 09:54 UTC, Pedro
Details

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Description Pedro 2020-05-05 09:48:59 UTC
Created attachment 160369 [details]
Character Spacing text LO Writer 6.4.3.2 versus MS Word 365

I noticed a while ago that font spacing in Writer was a bit irregular compared to Microsoft Office Word when using the same fonts.
I decided to perform a few tests to compare the character spacing in several sans serif fonts (open source or proprietary)

I did the following:
1 - Open Word 365 and Writer 6.4.3.2.
2 - Write the same text with Liberation Sans, Carlito, Dejavu Sans, Noto Sans, Source Sans Pro, Roboto, Calibri and Segoe UI.
3 - Disable OpenGL rendering in Writer and compare again.
4 - Save files in both .odt and .docx.
5 - Open both .odt and .docx file in Word and Writer.
6 - Compare character spacing.

The character spacing in Writer is completely inconsistent within the same word. I highlighted a few of the issues I found with the tested font types, both with OpenGL turned On and Off.
Comment 1 Pedro 2020-05-05 09:49:41 UTC
Created attachment 160370 [details]
Character Spacing text LO Writer 6.4.3.2 versus MS Word 365 OpenGL off
Comment 3 Ming Hua 2020-05-06 05:27:24 UTC
Similar problems have been reported as bug 128987 and bug 123182 before.
Comment 4 Pedro 2020-05-06 08:35:35 UTC
Thank you. I must mention the following: I tried several zoom levels: 120%, 130%, 110%, 100% and this kept happening.
The problems with character kerning (didn't know that was the word) happens in multiple font types. All of them sans serif.

This is a very serious bug for anyone that wants to use Writer as a text editor. Character kerning is of the utmost importance to produce documents.
Comment 5 Dieter 2020-05-10 04:40:51 UTC
Pedro, could you please attach your sample document? That would reduce work for everybody who wants to reproduce the bug. Thanks.
Comment 6 Pedro 2020-05-10 12:18:42 UTC
Created attachment 160594 [details]
Sample file with different fonts

Sure, here it is the .odt file.
Comment 7 Dieter 2020-05-10 14:32:54 UTC
(In reply to Pedro from comment #6)
> Created attachment 160594 [details]
> Sample file with different fonts
> 
> Sure, here it is the .odt file.

Tested with your document in

Version: 6.3.5.2 (x64)
Build-ID: dd0751754f11728f69b42ee2af66670068624673
CPU-Threads: 4; BS: Windows 10.0; UI-Render: Standard; VCL: win; 
Gebietsschema: de-DE (de_DE); UI-Sprache: de-DE
Calc: threaded

and in

Version: 7.0.0.0.alpha1+ (x64)
Build ID: 99c337d1d3831ce9d2c7dc1cbff713f4ac49d6ac
CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 18363; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win; 
Locale: de-DE (de_DE); UI: en-GB
Calc: CL

but couldn't reproduce it.
Comment 8 Xisco Faulí 2020-05-11 09:54:49 UTC
(In reply to Pedro from comment #6)
> Created attachment 160594 [details]
> Sample file with different fonts
> 
> Sure, here it is the .odt file.

So it's a ODT document?
what makes you think the issue is in LibreOffice and not in MSO Word ?
Comment 9 Dieter 2020-05-11 10:01:27 UTC
(In reply to Xisco Faulí from comment #8)
> So it's a ODT document?
> what makes you think the issue is in LibreOffice and not in MSO Word ?

Xisco, I don't understand your question, because attachment in comment 0 and comment 1 show the rendering problems of an odt-file in writer. So MS Word is only for comparison.
Comment 10 Pedro 2020-05-11 10:27:20 UTC
You can literally check the problem in kerning spacing in the Writer file I attached.
I tried it in LibreOffice 7.0 (clean user profile), in my 6.4 install and this issue appears in both. It appears in Writer with odt files and docx files. In Word it does not happen with either. 
Do you want me to check in Softmaker Office and WPS Office as well?

There are multiple other bug reports about kerning issues around but they were different and less comprehensive than what I checked.
Comment 11 Pedro 2020-05-11 10:30:29 UTC
(In reply to Dieter from comment #7)
> (In reply to Pedro from comment #6)
> > Created attachment 160594 [details]
> > Sample file with different fonts
> > 
> > Sure, here it is the .odt file.
> 
> Tested with your document in
> 
> Version: 6.3.5.2 (x64)
> Build-ID: dd0751754f11728f69b42ee2af66670068624673
> CPU-Threads: 4; BS: Windows 10.0; UI-Render: Standard; VCL: win; 
> Gebietsschema: de-DE (de_DE); UI-Sprache: de-DE
> Calc: threaded
> 
> and in
> 
> Version: 7.0.0.0.alpha1+ (x64)
> Build ID: 99c337d1d3831ce9d2c7dc1cbff713f4ac49d6ac
> CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 18363; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL:
> win; 
> Locale: de-DE (de_DE); UI: en-GB
> Calc: CL
> 
> but couldn't reproduce it.

Damn it. You don't have irregular kerning? :/
I have both in 6.4 and 7.
Here's the info of my LO installs:

Versão: 6.4.3.2 (x64)
ID da versão: 747b5d0ebf89f41c860ec2a39efd7cb15b54f2d8
Processos do CPU: 8; SO: Windows 10.0 Build 18363; Gestão da interface: padrão; VCL: win; 
Configuração regional: pt-PT (pt_PT); Idioma da interface: pt-PT
Calc: threaded

Version: 7.0.0.0.alpha0+ (x64)
Build ID: 97a2c1fc5e376c0c00968f17a0392c6d3a5ed565
Processos do CPU: 8; SO: Windows 10.0 Build 18363; Gestão da interface: Skia/Raster; VCL: win; 
Locale: pt-PT (pt_PT); Idioma da interface: pt-PT
Calc: threaded
Comment 12 Dieter 2020-05-11 10:36:13 UTC
(In reply to Pedro from comment #11)
> Damn it. You don't have irregular kerning? :/
> I have both in 6.4 and 7.

I've only checked your examples and all looks good. While writing this answer, I'm getting the idea, that it might depends on zoom level of the document (I haven't tested this). Could you please test it? Have you also teted kerning in printed document?

=> NEEDINFO
Comment 13 Pedro 2020-05-11 16:57:05 UTC
Created attachment 160682 [details]
Zoom level 100%

I'll attach a bunch of different zoom levels. I see this problem at all zoom levels.
I can't test printing at home (don't have a printer). When I get to work I'll print a test document, and check if the kerning is also defective. I'll scan the result.
Comment 14 Pedro 2020-05-11 16:57:26 UTC
Created attachment 160683 [details]
Zoom level 120%
Comment 15 Pedro 2020-05-11 16:57:52 UTC
Created attachment 160684 [details]
Zoom level 140%
Comment 16 Pedro 2020-05-11 16:58:19 UTC
Created attachment 160685 [details]
Zoom level 180%
Comment 17 Dieter 2020-05-11 17:02:24 UTC
(In reply to Pedro from comment #13)
> I can't test printing at home (don't have a printer).

Thanks for testing differen zoom-levels. Perhaps you can test with PDF-Export instead of printing and add result as attachment.
Comment 18 Pedro 2020-05-11 17:04:17 UTC
Created attachment 160686 [details]
Word Zoom level 100%

Word Zoom levels for comparison.
Note the difference in Carlito on the word "testing".
Comment 19 Pedro 2020-05-11 17:04:40 UTC
Created attachment 160687 [details]
Word zoom level 120%
Comment 20 Pedro 2020-05-11 17:05:10 UTC
Created attachment 160688 [details]
Word zoom level 140%
Comment 21 Pedro 2020-05-11 17:05:47 UTC
Created attachment 160689 [details]
Word zoom level 180%
Comment 22 Pedro 2020-05-11 17:13:48 UTC
Created attachment 160690 [details]
PDF export zoom 100

Here go the pdf exportsat different zoom levels. The kerning errors are exported. I'll also upload pdf from Word for comparison
Comment 23 Pedro 2020-05-11 17:14:12 UTC
Created attachment 160691 [details]
PDF export zoom 140
Comment 24 Pedro 2020-05-11 17:14:39 UTC
Created attachment 160692 [details]
PDF export zoom 100 MS Word
Comment 25 Pedro 2020-05-11 17:15:55 UTC
Created attachment 160693 [details]
PDF export zoom 140 MS Word

Look at the word "testing" in Carlito and Calibri in Word and Writer pdf files. That's the most shocking and easy to see for me. I'm at a meeting now so I can't point out the kerning errors in detail.
Comment 26 Pedro 2020-05-11 17:19:05 UTC
Dieter, if you need something else please ask. If someone else could check this and associated bugs to try and replicate, it would be very helpful.
Comment 27 Ming Hua 2020-05-12 00:42:20 UTC
Created attachment 160710 [details]
Screenshot of sample ODT on Windows 10 with 7.0.0 alpha1

(In reply to Pedro from comment #26)
> If someone else could check
> this and associated bugs to try and replicate, it would be very helpful.
Here is a screenshot of the sample file displayed in LO Writer 7.0.0 alpha1 on my system, 130% zoom level.
Version: 7.0.0.0.alpha1 (x64)
Build ID: 6a03b2a54143a9bc0c6d4c7f1...
CPU 线程: 2; 操作系统: Windows 10.0 Build 18363; UI 渲染: Skia/Raster; VCL: win; 
Locale: zh-CN (zh_CN); UI: zh-CN
Calc: threaded

I'm seeing kerning problems in completely different places than where Pedro sees them, which I also highlighted with red underlines.

As for the word "testing" in the Carlito line, I do get the same look as attachment 160682 [details], but it doesn't bother me too much.  I'd like to also point out that in attachment 160369 [details] it looks different again, and specifically the kerning between t and i part.
Comment 28 Pedro 2020-05-12 17:03:16 UTC
The kerning error in "testing" is just the one that is immediately easier for me to pick up on and that shows consistently in all zoom levels that I tried. The other ones for me bother me a lot more. Some words feel like they were broken down in two.
Comment 29 QA Administrators 2020-05-13 03:52:20 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 30 Pedro 2020-05-13 09:22:48 UTC
Ming Hua just confirmed this as well.
Comment 31 Pedro 2020-05-20 09:54:19 UTC
Created attachment 161030 [details]
Another example of awful kerning at default zoom.

Another example of awful kerning at default zoom.
Comment 32 Pedro 2020-08-05 16:06:06 UTC
I decided to check the latest version of Open Office and it also presents kerning issues just as LibreOffice does. This seems to be something inherent to the codebase of both.
Comment 33 Pedro 2020-08-05 17:52:34 UTC
(In reply to Pedro from comment #32)
> I decided to check the latest version of Open Office and it also presents
> kerning issues just as LibreOffice does. This seems to be something inherent
> to the codebase of both.

In 7.0.0.3 there are some large improvements! Some kerning issue remain and these are much more visible at 120% zoom level. Maybe that might help detect the problem?