The description for ”page text area” needs to be corrected, both for Horizontal and Vertical ”to” options. (swriter/01/05060100.xhp) [1] Adding them to that page will also appropriately have them embedded in [2] [1] https://help.libreoffice.org/7.4/en-US/text/swriter/01/05060100.html?&DbPAR=WRITER [2] https://help.libreoffice.org/7.4/en-US/text/shared/01/05230100.html?DbPAR=WRITER
Changes in gerrit https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/help/+/149886
Why is the description wrong? Page text area: the object is positioned considering the whole width available for text in the page, from the left to the right page margins. Very similar to this is Paragraph text area: the object is positioned considering the whole width available for text in the paragraph, excluding indent spaces. The only thing that could be wrong would be the missing ", excluding indent spaces".
(In reply to BogdanB from comment #2) > Why is the description wrong? Position an object using "page text area", where the page has a border and padding. Then you will see that the page margins do not define the region used for positioning.
Created attachment 186480 [details] screenshot In this document I have a page border and a 2 cm page padding. The image is aligned from left 0 cm to Page text area. The paragraph has an indent of 1 cm. The definition is Page text area: the object is positioned considering the whole width available for text in the page, from the left to the right page margins. Exactly like in this description, we can see the marker for the corner of the text area, and the image is aligned considering that, "width available for text in the page". The text could be aligned with the corner, but I moved 1 cm to the right, but the image is aligned to the possible left margin of the text.
Created attachment 186481 [details] demo document The document for testing
(In reply to BogdanB from comment #4) >image is aligned to the possible left margin of the text. Terminology problem here. The Left margin attribute is set in the Page tab of the Page Style dialog. The test document, which is fine, shows clearly that positioning is not in relation to the left margin (otherwise using "Left" for "Horizontal" would place the shape on the left margin). Description needs to specify unambiguously the region used for positioning. ("possible" does not communicate what is possible in this case).
Proposal Page text area: the object is positioned considering the whole width available for text in the page, including the indent, from the left to the right text margins.
(In reply to BogdanB from comment #7) > right text margins. What is a text margin? Try to think about this in terms of defining a "region", where the description has to explain what region is used, so that if I use "Left" or "right"(Horizontal) or "Top" or "Bottom" (Vertical), that I will know in advance (be able to predict accurately) where the shape will be placed. A phrase like "considering the whole width" will not give the information needed to answer that question.
Another try Page text area: the object is positioned considering the left margin of the text area for the page, including the indent.
(In reply to BogdanB from comment #9) > Page text area: the object is positioned the left margin of the > text area for the page, including the indent. You have defined "page text area" by referring to "text area for the page" Cannot define a region by referring to the region. See if this entry can give some inspiration: Left of page text area: the object is positioned in the region between the left edge of the page and the left margin plus any left page padding.
3 new versions: Page text area: the object is positioned in the region between left text margin, including page padding, and right text margin. Page text area: the object is positioned in the region between left margin, including page padding, and right margin. Page text area: the object is positioned in the region between the left margin of the text area, including page padding, and the right margin of the text area.
(In reply to BogdanB from comment #11) > 3 new versions: 1. Your descriptions seem to imply that right padding has no effect on page text area, so that objects are positioned in relation to the right margin. Have you tried to use "Right" in the Horizontal option (e.g., in your test document) to confirm that behavior? 2. Probably the solution will be along the lines of the region between inner edge of left page padding and inner edge of right page padding. (closest to version 2) 3. Probably do not need to refer to "text area" (version 3)
My latest proposals: Page text area: the object is positioned in the region between the right margin of page padding, and page right margin. Page text area: the object is positioned in the region between the inner margin of page padding, and page right margin. we have page border, page padding [---here is the image---], paragraph padding, text ... [more here], page margin is the limit the image can be, even if I insert 15, LO is changing to the maximum the page margin allows.
(In reply to BogdanB from comment #13) > My latest proposals: > Page text area: the object is positioned in the region between the right > margin of page padding, and page right margin. Need to mention left side as well. > Page text area: the object is positioned in the region between the inner > margin of page padding, and page right margin. inner margin probably should be "inner edge" The assumption is that because padding is a region, it has two edges (in Horizontal), where "inner" edge is understood as closer to the middle of the document. > we have page border, page padding [---here is the image---], paragraph padding, > text ... [more here], page margin is the limit the image can be, Sounds right. In this description, where is "Page text area"? > even if I insert 15, LO is changing to the maximum the page margin allows. Did not understand where 15 is being entered. Finally you refer only to the right side in these proposals. You will probably need to refer to both left and right sides to explain the region used for positioning.
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #14) > (In reply to BogdanB from comment #13) > > My latest proposals: > > Page text area: the object is positioned in the region between the right > > margin of page padding, and page right margin. > Need to mention left side as well. > This is left -> the right margin of page padding This is right -> page right margin You can not move an image to the right more that the right margin of the page, and on the left, you can not move more left than the right margin of page padding. > > Page text area: the object is positioned in the region between the inner > > margin of page padding, and page right margin. > inner margin probably should be "inner edge" > The assumption is that because padding is a region, it has two edges (in > Horizontal), where "inner" edge is understood as closer to the middle of the > document. > > > we have page border, page padding [---here is the image---], paragraph padding, > > text ... [more here], page margin is the limit the image can be, > Sounds right. In this description, where is "Page text area"? > We don't need page text area, we have the limits for the image already mentioned. > > even if I insert 15, LO is changing to the maximum the page margin allows. > Did not understand where 15 is being entered. > > Finally you refer only to the right side in these proposals. You will > probably need to refer to both left and right sides to explain the region > used for positioning. In my demo document if you insert a distance of 15 from the left, you will see that LO will modifiy the distance as I wrote above.
(In reply to BogdanB from comment #15) > This is left -> the right margin of page padding > This is right -> page right margin Confusing. Maybe make a Draw document with callout labels to explain your interpretation. > You can not move an image to the right more that the right margin of the > page, and on the left, you can not move more left than the right margin of > page padding. This sounds a limitation that arises because of the size of your test image, but not relevant for explaining the region that is "page text area". Try using a test image (or a shape) that is only one character wide. And instead of "From Left", make three thin images, and position them use the options "Left", "Right" (and "Center") in "Horizontal". That will define the page text area region. > We don't need page text area, we have the limits for the image already > mentioned. ??? The OP is about defining the page text area. > In my demo document if you insert a distance of 15 from the left, you will > see that LO will modifiy the distance as I wrote above. I do not understand why you think this is relevant. Make the width of your image to 0,25cm. Then you can use 15cm From left. But this has nothing to do with defining the "page text area" region.
@Bogdan -- your hard work has helped me to understand that for "Horizontal" page text area could be described as follows: page text area: the object is positioned between the inner edge of the left page padding and the inner edge of the right page padding. Maybe you would like to submit that change?
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #17) > @Bogdan -- your hard work has helped me to understand that for "Horizontal" > page text area could be described as follows: > > page text area: the object is positioned between the inner edge of the left > page padding and the inner edge of the right page padding. > > > Maybe you would like to submit that change? But it is NOT correct. I tried what you have said earlier, and I minimized the image, and IF the image is starting with positive numbers (from zero above) it's correct to be "inner edge of the left page padding", but otherwise, IF I set minus 2 cm to a small image I can move the image to the left margin of the page. When talking about the right limit, I don't agree with "inner edge of the right page padding". The image is moving more beyond that. I attached another example: there are 4 images: - minus 5 cm from left - zero cm - plus 5 cm - 25 cm They can be from the left page margin to the right page margin IF we take positive or negative value. They can be from the inner edge of the left page padding to the right page margin if just positive value.
Created attachment 186524 [details] demo document
(In reply to BogdanB from comment #18) > I attached another example: The attachment uses "Entire Paragraph Area" (that is bug 149252), but this ticket is "Page Text Area". (but I have converted the "to" option to "Page text area", so no need to upload a new version of the test document). Please do not use "From left" in your test document. This is what is creating the confusion. It is true that you can position an object beyond the boundaries of the region. (just as a negative paragraph indent can place text beyond a page margin), but this is not relevant for the help page. The purpose of the help for "page text area" is to identify the region being used for the positioning. As suggested before, use only "Left" and "Right" in your Horizontal option, and you will see the boundaries of the region.
Created attachment 188613 [details] Anchor to paragraph Sorry, I didn't noticed that you had put me on CC in Gerrit. Attached is the "anchor to paragraph" case. It marks the areas mentioned in the dialog with dimension lines. In case of "anchor to character" you get some more areas or lines as reference. I would not try to describe the areas without illustration. Of cause text is needed in addition. I suggest you make a Wiki page with illustrations and text and when that is understandable condense it to a help page.
Created attachment 188614 [details] Several areas from point of file markup Some time ago I had started to collect, which area in the layout belongs to which attribute in markup. The terms are not usable for help pages or user guides, especially because of the ambiguity of the term "margin". So do not use them. I have attached it nevertheless because it shows a principle way how to combine illustrations of the areas with textual explanations.
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #21) Thanks for the helpful diagrams Regina. We have identified "page text area" correctly, but your diagram does not provide information needed to describe it accurately in words. What do you think about this description: Page text area: from the inner edge of the left page padding to the inner edge of the right page padding > I would not try to describe the areas without illustration. > I suggest you make a Wiki page with illustrations and > text and when that is understandable condense it to a help page. @Bogdan: What do you think?
Bogdan B committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/help/commit/25f4e3d465bed888952ef7cafa2e47736bb0214d tdf#148903 Improve Help about positioning