(Context: position dialog for objects) Bug 133104 comment 15 suggests that the "Margin" option in the ”to” control for Vertical positioning might deserve renaming. I propose: "Margin" -> "Entire paragraph area" (which would make it almost parallel to "Entire page" and "Entire frame", which are already used). Further, in the ”to” control for Horizontal positioning: "Paragraph area" --> "Entire paragraph area" (again to keep things parallel -- and to use the same name for the same region between Horizontal and Vertical). See bug 149245 comment 6 for elaborated motivation. The reason for using ”Entire paragraph area” instead of ”Entire paragraph” is because unlike ”page” and ”frame”, the horizontal meaning of paragraph is contextual. See bug 149245 comment 7 for elaboration of that choice.
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/134785
*** Bug 92138 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
The justification of the rename: The labels texts are defined in svx/inc/swframeposstrings.hrc (as in https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/134785). The definitions there are part of RID_SVXSW_FRAMEPOSITIONS array, which is used in SvxSwFramePosString::GetString (svx/source/dialog/swframeposstrings.cxx), which binds the array with SvxSwFramePosString::StringId enum (svx/swframeposstrings.hxx). The two relevant values from that enum are 'FRAME' (for horizontal) and 'REL_BORDER' (for vertical); and these latter are used in cui/source/tabpages/swpossizetabpage.cxx and sw/source/ui/frmdlg/frmpage.cxx (mostly duplicating each other) to mean "text region of the paragraph" and "vertical text region of the paragraph", respectively (see 'enum class LB' and its 'Frame' and 'VertFrame' in both files). Note that "text region" there is opposed to "(vertical) text region of the paragraph + indentions" (PrintArea and VertPrintArea, that correspond to "Paragraph text area" in UI), so the bottom line is: yes, the two strings affected here are related to paragraph, not to something else (especially important for "Margin").
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/ac0163be9509d7e3f9761f904e853784f5e92867 tdf#149252 adjust vertical/horizontal positioning labels for paragraphs It will be available in 7.4.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
@Rafael it looks like you (in [1]) added the following text to [2]: * Margin: Depending on the anchoring type, the object is positioned considering the space between the top margin and the character ("To character" anchoring) or bottom edge of the paragraph ("To paragraph" anchoring) where the anchor is placed. afaict (from empirical testing – together with my slight understanding of the intention of the ”Margin” option, bug 133104 comment 15), there is no difference in the vertical positioning with "To Paragraph" and "To Character"-- but many times I have been mistaken in my attempts to test thoroughly….. ….hence my query to find out more about the dependency on the anchor type (e.g., can you give a test document to show the difference, or some other source). Thanks. [1] https://git.libreoffice.org/help/+/e0504d8b59b76437009203f68877a07fb9951cde [2] https://help.libreoffice.org/7.3/en-US/text/swriter/01/05060100.html?DbPAR=WRITER#bm_id1466719
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #5) See also https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/help/+/120585/3#message-00ac29854298a4ebd026227bf47ec01fbabe182c : > This patch provides information on image/frame alignment options (vertical > and horizontal). However, because these options weren't all documented in > the guides, I had to "guess" some of the more uncommon options.
Created attachment 180342 [details] Anchoring example (In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #5) > @Rafael it looks like you (in [1]) added the following text to [2]: As a disclaimer, when I wrote this help content, most of it was out of trial-and-error, because some anchoring and position settings are very mystical to me. Therefore there might be some mistakes there. Here's a sample file. Details are inside the file, but basically: 1) First image is anchored “To character” with options “From top” 0cm “Margin”. Click the image to see where the anchor is. Here the 0cm start from the top margin. 2) The second image is anchored “To paragraph” with options “From top” 3cm “Margin”. Click the image to see where the anchor is. Here the 3cm start at the top of the paragraph. Note how the final result is different. However, I'll have to fix an error in the help page, because from this example the description is incorrect in the Margin option. Also, I'll have to update it due to patch https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/134785
I'm sending this to Documentation, since the main request has already been patched.
(In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #7) > Note how the final result is different. Aha, I see now where the confusion comes from. The problem is that the images are set to wrap=none. That makes it impossible for the first image to have its top aligned with the top of the paragraph's text; the effect is that the paragraph area is extended vertically (whitespace added), and the image gets inserted above the text - but still, there is 0 cm between its top and paragraph area's top. (The paragraph area expansion is visible if you apply a color background to the paragraph.)
(In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #7) Many thanks for helpful explanations. > some anchoring and position settings are very mystical to me. (-: for some of them, there are often (too) many factors that must be considered, making trial-and-error a poor method -- plus there are some bugs. (you were brave to even attempt the task at all!) > However, I'll have to fix an error in the help page, because from this > example the description is incorrect in the Margin option. If it is all right with you, I will make the correction, and also the updates, because there are several different patches that have or will change the labels in the dialog. (I just pinged you to get a better understanding of how the description appeared. Thanks).
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #10) > If it is all right with you, I will make the correction, and also the > updates, because there are several different patches that have or will > change the labels in the dialog. (I just pinged you to get a better > understanding of how the description appeared. Thanks). Please go ahead. If you'd like to, add me as CC or as reviewer.
Created attachment 180459 [details] Demonstration of Paragraph text area being larger than Entire Paragraph area The attachment shows how to use "paragraph text area" to position shapes "outside" of "entire paragraph area". Can I assume this is a legitimate example (i.e., not a bug)?
Created attachment 180567 [details] Entire paragraph area table, with proposed explanation Some points: 1. Ok to keep ”Entire” with ”Entire Paragraph Area” for both Horizontal and Vertical - primarily to keep a parallel with: Entire page Page text Area Entire frame Frame text area Entire paragraph area Paragraph text area (alternative is to drop ”Entire” for all, but ”page” and ”frame” alone seem more indefinite). 2. Also ok to keep ”Entire Paragraph Area” label for both Horizontal and Vertical controls – even though they are applied independently, and may have slight differences because they focus separately on horizontal and vertical. Primary reasons: to (a) indicate that the same ”region” (”container”) is being used and (b) avoid introducing even more variation across the entire set of positioning options. 3. Do not need to ”explain” the meaning of ”Entire Paragraph Area” in general. The work flow in the positioning dialog is to position Horizontal to Entire Paragraph Area and position Vertical to Entire Paragraph. These options can be used independently. No requirement that both options must be used at the same time in positioning an object. => sufficient to describe positioning for Entire Paragraph Area for Horizontal alone. Attachment provides a table of different contexts for Entire Paragraph Area for Horizontal. Proposal is to use a table like this to describe Entire Paragraph Area. Rather than trying to find a generic description (and forcing the reader to guess how the description applies in different contexts). It seems better – for documentation – to give an exhaustive list of the contexts. - I do not know if the table is exhaustive, but I tried. - Maybe the three multicolumn contexts (text, section, frame) can/should be collapsed into one entry. - a comparable table would be made for the Vertical option of Entire paragraph area.
Created attachment 180650 [details] screenshot of PS8 Attached is a screenshot of the result of Patchset 8 in https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/help/+/135008