Bug 149245 - Shouldn't "Paragraph Area" and "Page Text Area" be different in Horizontal Positioning?
Summary: Shouldn't "Paragraph Area" and "Page Text Area" be different in Horizontal Po...
Status: RESOLVED NOTABUG
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: LibreOffice (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
7.4.0.0 alpha0+
Hardware: All All
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: Object
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Reported: 2022-05-23 13:36 UTC by sdc.blanco
Modified: 2022-05-24 01:24 UTC (History)
2 users (show)

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Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
Comparison of horizontal positioning for Paragraph area and Page text area (35.19 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2022-05-23 13:36 UTC, sdc.blanco
Details

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Description sdc.blanco 2022-05-23 13:36:46 UTC
Created attachment 180314 [details]
Comparison of horizontal positioning for Paragraph area and Page text area

Attachment shows three diamond shapes positioned horizontally {Left, Center, Right} to {Paragraph Area, Page Text area}

Actual: all diamond shapes seem to be positioned in relation to Page text area.

Expected:  Diamonds positioned to "Paragraph Area" would use the region between Left Paragraph border and Right paragraph border.

What have I misunderstood?
Comment 1 Mike Kaganski 2022-05-23 13:58:51 UTC
This is not a bug.
In attachment 180314 [details], the paragraphs fill the whole page text area (the borders and padding, as well as "before/after text" indents are part of the paragraph area).

But create a three-column table, and repeat the experiment with paragraphs in the middle column to see the difference when the paragraph area is really narrower than the page text area.
Comment 2 sdc.blanco 2022-05-23 14:34:34 UTC
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #1)
> 
> In attachment 180314 [details], the paragraphs fill the whole page text area
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Do you mean "paragraph area"?

> (the borders and padding, as well as "before/after text" indents are part of
> the paragraph area).
That is also my understanding, which is why I put a border on the paragraph in the attachment. I would expect "Paragraph area" to use the region from Left para border to Right para border, not the "page text area" (as you wrote).

> But create a three-column table, and repeat the experiment with
Got it. Can see difference there.

Does this mean that for horizontal positioning, one column paragraphs are always using the page text area?
Comment 3 Mike Kaganski 2022-05-23 14:36:08 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #2)
> (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #1)
> > In attachment 180314 [details], the paragraphs fill the whole page text area
>                                                          
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Do you mean "paragraph area"?

No.

> Does this mean that for horizontal positioning, one column paragraphs are
> always using the page text area?

That was what I wrote above ;)
Comment 4 sdc.blanco 2022-05-23 15:09:04 UTC
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #3)
> That was what I wrote above ;)
Typos are not unknown. ;)

Thanks for confirmation. So one final question on this topic:

Using horizontal positioning, is it impossible to get different horizontal positions when using "Paragraph Area vs. Page Text area for the "to" option for an object anchored to a one column paragraph (where Left, Right, or Center are used for the Horizontal option)?

Behind the question is attention to the help page, where "Paragraph Area" is explained as: 

   Paragraph area: the object is positioned considering the whole
   width available for the paragraph, including indent spaces. [1]

The text seems to need improvement, but I want to be sure that I have grasped the expected behavior for "Paragraph Area".

Is the idea that "Paragraph area" is only useful for paragraphs in columns or tables?

And Paragraph border has nothing to do with: "whole width available" (and "Paragraph area" more generally)?

But then what defines what width is available to "Paragraph area"?

[1] https://help.libreoffice.org/7.4/en-US/text/shared/01/05230100.html
Comment 5 Mike Kaganski 2022-05-23 15:13:06 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #4)
> Is the idea that "Paragraph area" is only useful for paragraphs in columns
> or tables?

Or in frames, or in indented sections...
Comment 6 sdc.blanco 2022-05-23 16:02:38 UTC
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #5)
> Or in frames, or in indented sections...
Thanks for elaboration.

Defining these "regions" (in a few words) are tough. How about:

Paragraph area: Text area relative to the paragraph’s location (e.g.,  in a cell, frame, column, section).


Can we find a better "label" for "Paragraph area"?  (to avoid following situation)

Note in Horizontal "to" dropdown list:  Paragraph area
                                        Paragraph text area

The OP here grew out of making an analogy with other options:  
    Entire page
    Page text area

    Entire frame
    Frame text area

    Entire paragraph (currently "Margin)
    Paragraph text area


But the analogy breaks down in Horizontal, where I thought 

   Entire paragraph  (currently "Paragraph area")
   Paragraph text area

might work.  (but "Paragraph area" is "different")

Even if a better label cannot be found, I now see/believe that "Paragraph text area" also operates "contextually" in the same way as "Paragraph Area", which is worth trying to indicate in the help. 


Hmmmm.....maybe "Entire paragraph" might work -- where the help page has to explain that it refers to "the area where text can potentially appear relative to the paragraph's location"   

After all, if I have misinterpreted "Paragraph area" to mean "Entire Paragraph" (i.e., as defined by Paragraph borders), then changing from "Paragraph Area" to "Entire Paragraph" is not worse -- plus it gives an appropriate consistency with the other "Entire..." mentioned above.  And then users who get surprised by what happens with "Entire Paragraph" will have to read a "correct" description in help.

(back to your favorite topic about UI consistency, dictionary definitions, etc. ;)  )
Comment 7 Mike Kaganski 2022-05-23 16:10:29 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #6)
>    Entire paragraph  (currently "Paragraph area")
>    Paragraph text area

I like your proposal, and agree.
Just consider keeping the "area": "Entire paragraph area". Because the term "paragraph", unlike the others (page, frame) doesn't bear any *geometric* association with it, so when you see "align something to paragraph", *especially* when the definition of "paragraph" *in this context* is very specific and geometrical, and also non-obvious (including all those areas around the text) ... it would be definitely a big source of complaints. The "area" word would require reader to consider an option that it's not that simple :-)
Comment 8 sdc.blanco 2022-05-24 01:24:22 UTC
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #7)
> Just consider keeping the "area": "Entire paragraph area". 
Kept. Bug 149252