Bug 151108 - In Draw the Ctrl+M shortcut should create a New Page as in Impress
Summary: In Draw the Ctrl+M shortcut should create a New Page as in Impress
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Draw (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
7.3.5.2 release
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2022-09-21 13:58 UTC by Rafael Lima
Modified: 2022-10-06 20:49 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:
Regression By:


Attachments
Screenshot (20.85 KB, image/png)
2022-09-22 08:47 UTC, Heiko Tietze
Details

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Description Rafael Lima 2022-09-21 13:58:48 UTC
In LO Impress we have a Ctrl+M shortcut that inserts a New Slide. In LO Draw the equivalent outcome of this shortcut would be to insert a New Page.

I often find myself in LO Draw pressing Ctrl+M to insert a New Page, but then it does not work because this shortcut is not set by default.

Since Draw and Impress are very similar, I believe we should have the Ctrl+M shortcut set in LO Draw by default to insert a New Page.

The problem is:
1) In Draw, Calc and Writer the shortcut Ctrl-M is used for "Clear Direct Formatting"
2) Impress is the only app where Ctrl+M has a different meaning (Insert New Slide) and Ctrl+Shift+M is used for "Clear Direct Formatting"

So how could we go about this? A possible solution would be have a different shortcut for Insert New Page in Draw (f.i. Ctrl+T).

Or better (which is my proposal), we could implement in Draw the same shortcuts as in Impress:
- Ctrl+M for "Insert New Page"
- Ctrl+Shift+M for "Clear Direct Formatting"

IMO this would achieve consistency between both applications.
Comment 1 V Stuart Foote 2022-09-21 15:45:51 UTC
The accelerators <Alt>+N are already common and localized for Draw & Impress New page/slide

While I'm all for consistency, in reality the Shortcut <Ctrl>+M for new Slide in Impress is at odds with its use for Clear Direct Formatting, which elsewhere is <Ctrl>+M but in Impress is forced to <Ctrl>+<Shift>+M.  Why not make the shortcut for New Slide the <Ctrl>+<Shift>+M?

So where did the <Ctrl>+M shortcut originate that it is the New Slide shortcut?

Maybe use another available shortcut?

Otherwise a can of worms, "no changes for change sake".

IMHO => WF
Comment 2 Rafael Lima 2022-09-21 17:20:25 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #1)
> The accelerators <Alt>+N are already common and localized for Draw & Impress
> New page/slide

This does not work for me. Alt+N in Draw does nothing.

> While I'm all for consistency, in reality the Shortcut <Ctrl>+M for new
> Slide in Impress is at odds with its use for Clear Direct Formatting, which
> elsewhere is <Ctrl>+M but in Impress is forced to <Ctrl>+<Shift>+M.  Why not
> make the shortcut for New Slide the <Ctrl>+<Shift>+M?

This is a good compromise. At least we would have an accelerator for New Page in Draw.

> So where did the <Ctrl>+M shortcut originate that it is the New Slide
> shortcut?

I believe in Impress the shortcut Ctrl+M is used for compatibility with MS PowerPoint, which also uses Ctrl+M for New Slide.

> Maybe use another available shortcut?

The one that makes more sense would be Ctrl+Shift+M, as you suggested.

> Otherwise a can of worms, "no changes for change sake".

I don't think this request is about "changes for change sake". If Ctrl+M turns out to not be a good idea, we should use something as shortcut for the New Page command.
Comment 3 V Stuart Foote 2022-09-21 17:47:40 UTC
(In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #2)
> (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #1)
> > The accelerators <Alt>+N are already common and localized for Draw & Impress
> > New page/slide
> 
> This does not work for me. Alt+N in Draw does nothing.
> 

The <Alt> accelerator behavior has been tweaked. So now they are sequenced:

<Alt>, <P>, <N> -- for a new Page in Draw

<Alt>, <L>, <N> -- for a new Slide in Impress
Comment 4 Heiko Tietze 2022-09-22 08:46:47 UTC
Wouldn't associate M with New.

Before the patch https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/36647/ the shortcut was assigned to .uno:SetDefault (and .uno:InsertPage had no shortcut at all; we might have renamed the command, though).

So my take is to use ctrl/cmd+alt+N for new slide/page.



Different topic: Looking into the customization dialog, the command's label is "New Page" at Impress while the UI shows correctly "New Slide". Maxim implemented with https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/commit/223b07bb52823eb50b85d283572cb543378afbd1 the command .uno:InsertSlide which has the target .uno:InsertPage. All fine but the customization still doesn't find "New Slide". Jim, is this something for you?
Comment 5 Heiko Tietze 2022-09-22 08:47:28 UTC
Created attachment 182610 [details]
Screenshot

Context menu in question, left Impress, right Draw.
Comment 6 Regina Henschel 2022-09-22 12:24:55 UTC
I think, the error is that Impress has the shortcut Ctrl+M for "new slide". Everywhere else the short-cut Ctrl+M means "remove direct formatting".

I suspect the Ctrl+M shortcut was introduced to make it easier for users to switch from PowerPoint to Impress. But since PowerPoint has no styles for graphical objects, people switching from PowerPoint to Impress have to learn new things anyway. So I think it would be better to reintroduce the Ctrl+M shortcut for ".uno:clear" in Impress so that it is unique across the suite, and find another shortcut for "new slide" that can then also be used in Draw.
Comment 7 V Stuart Foote 2022-09-22 13:35:24 UTC
As discussed and poorly resolved in see also bug 87674, agree with Regina the using <Ctrl>+M for other than clearing direct formatting was not the best idea.

But a common shortcut for New Slide/Page for the sd modules (Impress/Draw) would be helpful--just not <Ctrl>+M

So, maybe "<Ctrl>+<Shift>+M"  for the New Slide (Impress) or Page (Draw)?

Note that <Ctrl>+N opens a new instance of the active LibreOffice module (except SC which will open into Writer), and that is similar to MS Office behavior. And otherwise not available.
Comment 8 Maxim Monastirsky 2022-09-22 18:52:48 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #4)
> Different topic: Looking into the customization dialog, the command's label
> is "New Page" at Impress while the UI shows correctly "New Slide". Maxim
> implemented with
> https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/commit/
> 223b07bb52823eb50b85d283572cb543378afbd1 the command .uno:InsertSlide which
> has the target .uno:InsertPage. All fine but the customization still doesn't
> find "New Slide".
There is absolutely no way we can tell the customization dialog to use .uno:InsertSlide instead of .uno:InsertPage, as we nowhere record this relationship that .uno:InsertSlide supposed to _replace_ .uno:InsertPage in certain context. However, we can try to show .uno:InsertSlide _in addition_ to .uno:InsertPage (in both Impress and Draw), but it's unclear how to present that in the keyboard tab, given that aliases share the kb shortcut with the original command.

(That's why I admitted in Bug 108458 comment 12 that aliases might not be the best solution for the Impress/Draw command splitting. See attachment 137469 [details] for a different approach I played with, which might solve this nicely. Another option is to introduce a separate commands.xcu file for Impress.)
Comment 9 Cor Nouws 2022-10-04 10:43:54 UTC
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #6)
> I think, the error is that Impress has the shortcut Ctrl+M for "new slide".
> Everywhere else the short-cut Ctrl+M means "remove direct formatting".
> 
> I suspect the Ctrl+M shortcut was introduced to make it easier for users to
> switch from PowerPoint to Impress. But since PowerPoint has no styles for
> graphical objects, people switching from PowerPoint to Impress have to learn
> new things anyway. So I think it would be better to reintroduce the Ctrl+M
> shortcut for ".uno:clear" in Impress so that it is unique across the suite,
> and find another shortcut for "new slide" that can then also be used in Draw.

From consistency PoV it would indeed be an improvement to use Ctrl+M the same way in all modules. And IMO then "Clear direct formatting" should then be considered most important.
Comment 10 Rafael Lima 2022-10-04 12:03:54 UTC
So summarizing the discussion so far, to implement this request we need to:

- Associate the shortcut Ctrl+M in Impress with ".uno:clear" (thus keeping the current association of Ctrl+M in Draw)

- Associate .uno:InsertPage in Draw and Impress with a new shortcut (Ctrl+Shift+M)
Comment 11 Heiko Tietze 2022-10-06 14:43:03 UTC
We discussed the topic in the design meeting.

There is an agreement to keep the well known shortcut ctrl+M for clearing direct formatting and to introduce a new for both, Draw and Impress. The proposal is to go with ctrl+alt+N to make it easy to memorize as the N fits the new action better (the mnemonic ends also with N).

The tricky part is that we have to assign two commands to one shortcut (see comment 8). Perhaps Maxim has an idea how to "try to show .uno:InsertSlide _in addition_ to .uno:InsertPage (in both Impress and Draw)".
Comment 12 Eyal Rozenberg 2022-10-06 20:49:00 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #11)
> We discussed the topic in the design meeting.
> 
> easy to memorize as the N fits the new action better

... as "New" begins with N, not M.