Bug 151223 - let's drop "bold" and "italic", and assign CRTL+B to "strong", CRTL+i to emphasis
Summary: let's drop "bold" and "italic", and assign CRTL+B to "strong", CRTL+i to emph...
Status: RESOLVED DUPLICATE of bug 118979
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
(earliest affected) alpha0+
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
Keywords: needsUXEval
Depends on:
Blocks: Writer-Toolbars
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Reported: 2022-09-29 08:57 UTC by peter josvai
Modified: 2022-10-05 13:41 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

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Description peter josvai 2022-09-29 08:57:55 UTC

there is perhaps nothing as annoying as the CTRL+i problem.
it is even more annoying as one can forget how she/he has solved it before, and stand there again, in front of the same outrageously annoying problem:

sometimes de-italic-ing a selection seems impossible, 
and once it is achieved, clearing all direct formatting will bring it back..

of course, we know what causes this situation, and also know that only if we have both the formatting and formatting (styles) toolbar active, can we solve this..

but the question remains how long do we keep to direct formatting in terms of bold and italic...?

:::::::: suggestions:

CTRL+b should mean:   strong
CTRL+i shoud mean emphasis

strong + emphasis together should be available, too

an internal " '"old' document format" should be established
in which "old bold" and "old italic" should be handled the old way
without the request to "upgrade" to the new standard...

internal = the same ODT thing but wit a "flag" within the file

the "old" document format would be indicated at the document name, top bad of the window:  "doc_title.odt - Libreoffice Writer (o) 

 when customizing the toolbars, in the styles formatting toolbar the old bold and italic should net be present, strikethrough either

the TWO formatting toolbars would have a radio-button style indicator, clickable, at the beginning of the row... "I." AND "II." in a circle,
and the person using the application could choose to have styles formatting tool bar, as well as styles based formatting as default, which would mean that the "primary" toolbar would be the styles toolbar...

and once this mode is engaged, CTRL+b would mean strong, CTRL+i italic (emphasis)
 when a document is being opened in such an instance of Writer, switched to "advanced mode", NO popup would be necessary, of course, but an indication at the window title could show up: instead of (o), (A) -- not "old", but "Advanced", using styles not direct formatting

when the "Advanced mode" is active, "bold" and "italic" silently would turned into "strong" and "emphasis", bold+italic to strong + emphasis..

in #8 we just have come to a "conversion", an internal conversion, which can be used for tons of other things as well... in the future... 

PLEASE don't take these suggestions as concrete and direct ideas... but instead, view them as suggestions along which a "problem" could be identified and thought about...

                   & thank you for developing Writer!
Comment 1 V Stuart Foote 2022-09-29 18:35:02 UTC
Not seeing an advantage to the pain this would cause.

There are 4 UNO commands in this context--but there are other DF that have not corresponding ODF appropriate styles defined.

.uno:Bold  --> this is the <Ctrl>+b shortcut (localized and customizable)
.uno:Italic --> this is the <Ctrl>+i shortcut (localized and customizable)


The first two are resident on the 'Formatting' toolbar and need the .uno:ResetAttributes assigned to <Ctrl>+M to clear direct formatting with selection, or toolbar button action to directly toggle.

The second two are resident on the 'Formatting (Styles)' toolbar. Along with the 
.uno:DefaultCharStyle which allows reset of selection to paragraph's default styles.

Issues come in the resulting ODF archive (the actual document), direct formatting as Bold or Italic is recorded directly into the text runs (within T1, T2, T3... notations) in the content.xml

While when the character style (Strong or Emphasis) is applied, those is defined as a style (in style.xml)  that is then applied to the text runs (either as 'Standard' for the paragraph, or integrated with T1, T2, T3... direct formatting spans).

Not much of an issue with a document prepared purely using styles--but major issues with import/export filtering to non-ODF formats and horrible fidelity issues for OOXML interoperability with MS Office users.

So, if *you* need it--customize your Keyboard and Toolbar (Tools -> Customize) and assign the CharStyle commands as you need.  But IMHO I don't think it would be helpful to change the action assignments for the shortcuts by default to be the CharStyle.
Comment 2 Heiko Tietze 2022-10-05 13:41:25 UTC
Stuart resolved your duplicate bug 118979 as NAB.

You can a) easily achieve it with the customization dialog (consider to store the configuration in a template). And b) since you agree that many users don't understand the difference between DF and CS, such a move wouldn't be accepted. 

We support and promote use of the CS however with the "Formatting (Styles)" toolbar (see bug 106781).

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 118979 ***