Open "Insert Caption" dialog. Notice "Separator" label in Properties options. Enhancement proposal: "Separator" -> "Before Caption" Reasons: 1. "Before Caption" is more accurate (because the entry in that field does not appear unless a caption is entered). 2. When a caption is inserted and the Edit Fields dialog is used for the Caption number field, then "Separator" appears (in the Numbering by Chapter) section of the Edit Fields dialog. The "separator" in Edit Fields is a different (and unrelated) to the current "Separator" in the Captions dialog (e.g., Caption dialog allows multicharacter entries, edit field dialog allows only 1 character). The proposed change would avoid confusion by not using the same label for two different functions that appear closely together in the caption label. 3. "Separator" is also used as a label in the Customize List dialog allows. This is a third (unrelated) "meaning" of Separator (but appearing in a similar kind of situation). Again, seems valuable to reduce the linguistic overlap.
Additional change (for same kind of reasons) "Numbering separator" --> "After numbering" This option becomes active with "Numbering first" is set for Caption order (in the "Options" dialog for Insert Caption. It is possible to enter multiple characters for "Numbering separator", which appear after the Caption sequence number, but this "separator" is not related to the Numbering by Chapter separator that appears in the Edit Fields dialog. The change would avoid confusion, plus give a more accurate description of the operation of the option.
UX-team, another question about Caption numbering options here
Interested in hearing other ideas for the replacement strings, but agreeing that the current situation is not self-explanatory and needs improving. Inherited from OOo: OpenOffice.org 3.3.0 OOO330m20 (Build:9567)
We discussed the topic in the design meeting. First of all, the "Numbering separator" option is unclear. MSO requires manual input of caption separator (:) and labels the chapter option "use separator" with a set of single characters. Going the MSO way seems not the best, however. Using the same label on different places is not ideal but we had no good idea how to change. And the suggested "before caption" is always true. It's questionable whether something like "chapter divider" would make the dialog easier to understand. Maybe documentation is key here.
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/9d298aa0c78855fd075e24ef542e0c8e176e729c tdf#153242 "Separator" -> "Before caption" It will be available in 7.6.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #4) > "Numbering separator" option is unclear. New proposal: "After caption number" Reasons: 1. More precise/specific than original proposal "After numbering" 2. Only 1 character longer than current label.
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #6) > (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #4) > > "Numbering separator" option is unclear. > New proposal: "After caption number" > > Reasons: > 1. More precise/specific than original proposal "After numbering" > 2. Only 1 character longer than current label. Con: hard to translate, and likely ending up in mistakes
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #7) > Con: hard to translate, and likely ending up in mistakes Not persuasive. Extended tip for this option shows that it is possible. But length might be an issue. Perhaps: After number would work (together with a tooltip)?
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #8) > After number > > would work (together with a tooltip)? Much better, if correct. Guess we cannot do something like "<First> Figure" currently.
Created attachment 186485 [details] Demonstration of <First> Figure (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #9) > Much better, if correct. What you enter in "Numbering separator" always appears after the "number range" field. (easy to test) > Guess we cannot do something like "<First> Figure" currently. Why not? Use Options (in Insert Caption dialog), choose "Numbering first" in the Caption order option. I assume <First> refers to the caption number. See attachment for illustration. (Explanation of illustration, which happens to be slightly complex because I used a test file for bug 154613). "Første" appears because the locale was set to DK, while "Dibujo" appears because the UI language was set to Spanish. And then I entered a long string to mark "After number". But if we set LO to factory default, then it would appear as "First Figure"....)
With fields please: <First> figure of chapter <number>: <name> Off topic since we talk about the current situation and "After number" replacing "Numbering separator".
Created attachment 186489 [details] screenshot of Insert Caption dialog for complex caption construction (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #11) > With fields please: <First> figure of chapter <number>: <name> Attachment shows how to (almost) achieve this with the current Insert Caption dialog (if <First> is the caption number (CN) and <name> is the caption text (CT), while <number> refers to the first previous PS with outline level 1). The <Crtl+F2> is to indicate that you would need to manually add the chapter number by inserting a Document variable, otherwise it is possible with the current dialog. > Off topic since we talk about the current situation and "After number" > replacing "Numbering separator". Marking this comment as off-topic, and will assume that "After number" (with tooltip) is accepted as better than "Numbering separator".
Patch to change "Numbering separator" label, plus add tooltip/extended tip. https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/149992
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/feed4e7b75656f4dd8a55c0db8bc92e151c4027f tdf#153242 "Numbering separator" -> "After number" It will be available in 7.6.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/help/commit/0380b0919552e5409ec508aac3910a7422038311 tdf#153242 new labels for "Numbering separator" and "Separator"
AutoCaption dialog (and help pages) need the same kind of treatment -- in progress... https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/150082 (AutoCaption dialog) https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/help/+/150083 (help)
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/e131cd4cde28531e088a16a9eba1b8bc2ed067a1 tdf#153242 update labels for "Numbering separator" and "Separator" It will be available in 7.6.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/help/commit/18e7e5c3bf1a43e591d00ab01afa651cae12fa27 tdf#153242 update label changes: "Numbering separator" and "Separator"
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/37bd2d209e9ee3ae773dec728b21910d69d0522b tdf#153242 change tooltip/extended tip from label to GtkEntry box It will be available in 7.6.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Closing as FIXED -- changing summary to indicate what was changed and noting that there have been concerns about the adequacy of the new labels and the length of some tooltips. Also noting some satisfaction that the option labels in the "Insert Caption" and "AutoCaption" dialogs now appear more balanced (in terms of length), which gives a much cleaner/smoother look.