Bug 158301 - Calc Function Wizard: Make searching in descriptions optional, not forced
Summary: Calc Function Wizard: Make searching in descriptions optional, not forced
Status: ASSIGNED
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Calc (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
unspecified
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Ahmed Hamed
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
: 162489 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks: Function-Wizard
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Reported: 2023-11-21 16:20 UTC by ady
Modified: 2024-09-07 15:22 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

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Crash report or crash signature:


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Description ady 2023-11-21 16:20:06 UTC
In tdf#146781, the search feature of the Function Wizard was enhanced so as to include the description of the searched-for function as part of the search.

In the same tdf#146781, the possibility to make such expanded search _optional_ was also mentioned, but AFAIU the _optional_ part was never implemented, so the search _always_ includes the function's description, which generates a longer list of resulting functions when performing a search.

For experienced users (who might be aware of the function name they are looking for), the longer resulting list can be (or rather, is) inconvenient.

I would like to request the addition of a check box, perhaps just to the side of the "Search:" title above the search box, allowing the option to either include (or not) the description of the functions as part of the search.

Having the check box in the same dialogue and near the search box allows for a simple intuitive (and easily discover-able) toggle. The relevant text for the proposed check box would be a simple "Include description of functions" or "Include functions' description".

An optional helping tool-tip when hovering on such check box (and/or its corresponding text) would allow a more detailed description of the effect if it, if needed.
Comment 1 Heiko Tietze 2023-11-22 07:49:50 UTC
Do you have a good example where the search term produces a list that is hard to manage? Searching for "absol" returns 4 results, ABS, AVEDEV... which are easy to grasp.

I would add controls even such a checkbox only if absolutely necessary.
Comment 2 ady 2023-11-22 08:24:01 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #1)
> Do you have a good example where the search term produces a list that is
> hard to manage? Searching for "absol" returns 4 results, ABS, AVEDEV...
> which are easy to grasp.
> 
> I would add controls even such a checkbox only if absolutely necessary.

Please read the original report/request, tdf#146781, in which _several_ comments indeed mention the request/possibility to make the descriptions' search *optional* and those include examples too. So this request is not just mine; it was also part of the original tdf#146781.

Now, if you demand from users to input the entire name of the function in the search box, then the resulting list will eventually shrink, but that doesn't mean that it is more convenient or more effective/efficient (for users) than it was before the new expanded search (that includes descriptions).

Let's give one example as per your request (although the above paragraph describes the logic, which advance spreadsheet "builders/users" will clearly understand without the need of one specific example):

1_ Open the Function Wizard on an empty cell.
2_ Search for "la" (without quotation marks), aimed at the LARGE() function in Calc.

* for LO 7.6 (and since 7.5), the resulting list includes dozens of functions (and LARGE() is far down the list, requiring either additional characters in the search box or scrolling down the list).

* for LO 7.4, the resulting list shows 10 functions only, and LARGE() is already shown, without requiring additional characters in the search box nor scrolling down.

I don't know how (only) one example would demonstrate the logic, because anyone could say "just type more characters"; but that's not the point.

Searching the functions' descriptions helps newbies, but let's not make it harder (in comparison to the older/prior situation) for advance users that have been working with functions and the Wizard for years (or for decades). Let's complete the original request with the option / check box in the FW dialogue.
Comment 3 Heiko Tietze 2023-11-22 08:33:43 UTC
If it's for the advanced users, how about wildcards to switch from full to name-only search? "lar*" would return only LARGE() "*lar*" DOLLAR, DOLLARDE, DOLLARFR, LARGE (and nothing else).

I hesitate to agree with too many controls in the UI.
Comment 4 ady 2023-11-22 16:58:39 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3)
> If it's for the advanced users, how about wildcards to switch from full to
> name-only search? "lar*" would return only LARGE() "*lar*" DOLLAR, DOLLARDE,
> DOLLARFR, LARGE (and nothing else).
> 
> I hesitate to agree with too many controls in the UI.

That sentence shows that you might only use Calc sporadically at best; and I don't mean as part of the UX Team but as an actual spreadsheet "builder/user" focused on real use of Calc. If you were building formulas frequently, especially with the FW, you would have noticed the difference in user's performance already.

So your proposal would be to be less efficient for users that were more efficient before the change? No, I have to disagree. The process should improve efficiency while users gain experience.

I repeat; the original proposal was to _optionally_ include the functions' descriptions in the search. The current result of tdf#146781 makes the process less-efficient while users are supposed to improve in their experience. That's not really an improvement, especially in the long run for users.

One thing is to make Calc easier to use for newbies; another one is to make it harder for experienced users. That is not an acceptable cost for Calc users. Please don't push experienced users to leave Calc for other spreadsheet tools.
Comment 5 Heiko Tietze 2023-11-23 07:26:59 UTC
You sound a bit angry, don't be. We obviously have different opinions - you ask for a checkbox, I doubt it's needed. Accepting the control is not a big deal for me, just one of many places where we make the application _feel_ heavy, dated, inefficient.

I think your arguments are not really strong, well the objection is but I don't see the wide-ranging evidence. Anyway, you need to convince volunteers, and Andreas is usually open for ideas.
Comment 6 Andreas Heinisch 2023-11-23 08:18:27 UTC
What if we sort them differently? First the functions where the name matches and afterwards the functions where the term is in the description? Searching for "lar" gives then:

DOLLAR
DOLLARDE
DOLLARFR
LARGE
FV
IPMT
NPER
PMT
PPMT
RATE
REGEX
VDB
Comment 7 ady 2023-11-23 18:27:08 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #5)
>  you
> ask for a checkbox, I doubt it's needed. Accepting the control is not a big
> deal for me, just one of many places where we make the application _feel_
> heavy, dated, inefficient.

We disagree because the perspective of non-newbies for Calc is very rarely considered. It is not the first (nor third) time I find myself describing a process/procedure in Calc with painful detail and verbosity just because such perspective is not understood/considered.

> 
> I think your arguments are not really strong, well the objection is but I
> don't see the wide-ranging evidence. Anyway, you need to convince
> volunteers, and Andreas is usually open for ideas.

The original request in tdf#146781 was for an _option_, not "let's force the search on function's descriptions so newbies that have almost never used a function could find it without consideration for non-newbies at all".

If I were to adopt a similar initiative, I would have to request now to undo/reject the original change. Instead, I am logically requesting to keep helping newbies while avoiding the inefficiency that was introduced. If you don't like the checkbox suggestion, please suggest a better solution to keep helping newbies but without negatively affecting experienced users. After all, I hope you want for newbies to turn into more experienced users, with better performance.

(In reply to Andreas Heinisch from comment #6)
> What if we sort them differently? First the functions where the name matches
> and afterwards the functions where the term is in the description?

The list is currently sorted alphabetically. It is intuitive, in whichever direction users' eyes are moving. While separating the resulting list into 2 "categories" might be appealing in the context of this discussion, it would be less intuitive. I am sure that at some point users would "miss" the target function in the list.

For experienced users that use the FW frequently, the procedure has to be like muscle memory. If users have to "branch" the semi-automatic reaction to the resulting list, it is less efficient. The FW already has inefficiencies that could be improved (tdf#155316 is only one of them); please don't make it even worse.

Some experienced users type-in the formulas directly without using the FW. The FW avoids typos and similar errors, especially with complex formulas, so it is used not only by newbies.

Please respect the original request and make the search on functions' descriptions optional, not forced. The way to help newbies and experienced users alike is to allow the _option_ within the FW dialogue.
Comment 8 ady 2023-11-23 18:37:02 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #5)
> Accepting the control is not a big
> deal for me, just one of many places where we make the application _feel_
> heavy, dated, inefficient.

As long as the _option_ is available in the FW, feel free to put the checkbox somewhere else instead of besides the "Search:" title.

I think the suggested place would eventually invite users to try out the 2 alternatives, progressing into the more-experienced kind of users.

Perhaps a user is miss-remembering the name of the target function, in which case the check box would invite such user to expand the search.

But, if you think that the check box would be better placed somewhere else in the dialogue, or that there is a better UX method, let's hear it.
Comment 9 ady 2024-05-12 10:34:39 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #1)
> Do you have a good example where the search term produces a list that is
> hard to manage?

In the Function Wizard > Search field > type-in "text" (without quotation marks). The function is named exactly that, it is the complete name of the function, and yet I am being forced to scroll down the resulting list in order to select it. This was not the case before tdf#146781, which was supposed to be optional, not forced.

While tdf#146781 was supposed to be an improvement for newcomers, most Calc users should be able to advance. At that point, all non-newcomer users are not having a better experience, but a worse one.

Please allow common users to have the prior behavior (i.e. not to include the description in the search). Once in a while, I might need to search the description too (for instance, for functions that I use less frequently, or functions that I don't know so well yet), but that is not the most frequent case. I would like to be able to toggle between these situations.

BTW, the Side Panel for Functions (which does not search in descriptions) has been improved (and receives its own GSoC project), while the Function Wizard is relatively neglected. The quality in terms of UX and efficiency of the FW in Calc is already much lower than other spreadsheet tools. Forcing on users an unnecessary long list is not an improvement for the majority of Calc users (unless you want to consider Calc relevant only for newbies).

Please allow the toggle (as tdf#146781 was supposed to), instead of the forced search.
Comment 10 Heiko Tietze 2024-05-13 09:20:51 UTC
This topic will be part of the GSoC project "Improvement to the Functions Deck in LibreOffice Calc". We briefly talked about the search function and to summarize the ideas we have
* additional control to control the search
* special syntax like wildcards
* some sorting of the results

All wih pros and cons.
Comment 11 ady 2024-05-13 09:32:38 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #10)
> This topic will be part of the GSoC project "Improvement to the Functions
> Deck in LibreOffice Calc".

To be clear, I use the Function Wizard, not the Function Deck. Their respective search features/conditions are different. This report is about the FW, after the change in tdf#tdf#146781 was forced, instead of optional as it was supposed to be.
Comment 12 ady 2024-08-16 11:16:15 UTC
*** Bug 162489 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 13 Ahmed Hamed 2024-09-05 13:49:34 UTC
Searching within descriptions in FW was completely removed in Bug 161543, as it had a negative impact on search results. I believe this ticket can now be closed.
Comment 14 ady 2024-09-05 16:01:14 UTC
(In reply to Ahmed Hamed from comment #13)
> Searching within descriptions in FW was completely removed in Bug 161543

Thanks for the info and for whatever enhancements now implemented.

JFTR...

Since there are no details ATM in bug 161543 (at all), the FW now has a "Similar" check box, which expands the resulting list of functions according to the content of the Search box.

Having the "Similar" check box OFF, the resulting list is limited to functions that (partially) match the content of the Search box (as it used to be before tdf#146781, apparently). I am thankful for having this alternative behavior (back).

Having the "Similar" check box ON, the resulting list includes additional functions. In this case, I don't know the precise algorithm/relation to the content of the Search box; I just know it is not the same as the resulting list after the implementation of tdf#146781.

I would suggest mentioning the existence of this new "Similar" check box in the official Help Content, and perhaps at least a hint of what is the difference when the new check box is enabled – I mean, other than the obvious "expands the search/matching results so as to include more functions in the resulting list). If adding that "hint" seems too much information for the Help Content, then at least some mention of it in the Release Notes for 25.2 might be worth for users (but the existence of the new "Similar" check box should rather be included in the official Help Content anyway).

As a side-note, there are still several improvements to be made to the Function Wizard (even after tdf#161543).
Comment 15 Heiko Tietze 2024-09-06 06:50:01 UTC
(In reply to ady from comment #14)
> I am thankful for having this...
If you think searching in descriptions is not needed please resolve the ticket as WONTFIX or INVALID.
Comment 16 ady 2024-09-06 18:03:11 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #15)
> (In reply to ady from comment #14)
> > I am thankful for having this...
> If you think searching in descriptions is not needed

This tdf#158301 was/is aimed at requesting the fulfillment of tdf#146781 as originally described: to make the expanded search optional, not forced.

As I already mentioned in prior comments, adding the descriptions to the search can be sometimes useful, for example when you don't recall exactly which function should be used for some specific case. Advance users tend to repeat certain methods/functions, so they don't _always_ need to search in descriptions (or rather, infrequently). But with hundreds of functions, obviously you cannot remember (or completely know beforehand) every single function. If the first try (without extended search) does not result in the match you (thought you) were looking for, then you can expand the search (right there in the FW).

An expanded search can be useful for newbies (tdf#146781) in order to make the learning curve less traumatic. But, as I mentioned before, forcing the use of that expanded search on every occasion is very counterproductive, even for newbies.

Since I do not know what is the algorithm/relation used when the new "Similar" check box is enabled, I have no idea whether searching in descriptions could be still necessary under some circumstance, or for newbies. There is simply no way for me (or for anyone) to answer such question objectively.

One of the reasons for the Search box result to be very relevant (besides the very frequent use of it within the FW) is the current deficiencies of the Category field in the FW (which is the subject of other enhancement requests).

Spreadsheet tools are a "hands-on" learning experience (as happens with math, or with languages). You cannot really learn spreadsheet tools by only reading about it.

Maybe @raal has something to say about that question, considering that he started tdf#146781.
Comment 17 Ahmed Hamed 2024-09-07 15:22:23 UTC
(In reply to ady from comment #14)
> Having the "Similar" check box ON, the resulting list includes additional
> functions. In this case, I don't know the precise algorithm/relation to the
> content of the Search box;
It utilizes a hybrid similarity search approach. It combines Levenshtein distance with the search for the longest common substring and its position. Each method produces a score, and these scores are then used to sort the output. A threshold is set to determine whether a function is considered similar based on the combined score.